5 ms·

It's trivial to figure out where a ranging laser comes from, it's just that asymmetric warfare enables you to use them with impunity

gaius 9y ago
You can but NODs retail now that are halfway as good as the military state-of-the-art but a tiny fraction of the price. People think the Taliban, ISIS et al are just these desert rednecks but the truth is that they are well trained (originally by US Special Forces to fight the Soviets), highly experienced - much more so than any Western soldier most of whom do only a couple of tours - well funded and technologically sophisticated enough to run advanced psyops via social media.
int_19h 9y ago
And we already use lasers heavily because of this. Ever noticed those square things mounted to the forends of M16 and M4 rifles in Iraq and Afghanistan? E.g. this photo from 2001 - notice how literally every guy in it has one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Marines_humping_in_Afghanistan,_November_2001.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Marines_humping_in_A... That thing is called AN/PEQ-2, and it is an near infrared (NIR) laser/illuminator. The reason why it's infrared, is because the enemy can't see it unless they have night vision (which works in near infrared). The illuminator is then used as a flashlight, essentially, and the laser is used to designate targets. Now, recently, groups like ISIS have been acquiring night vision devices in more substantial numbers. So now there's an arms race of sorts, where there are new devices like this that push the frequencies further down, such that most existing NIR devices cannot see it, but new and more expensive ones can. Presumably the same would apply to Trackpoint-like technology.
- wnkrshm 9y ago
  Interesting, didn't know about this 'race to thermal IR'. But what I do know is that op optical components suitable for thermal imaging systems are under export control in the EU. So at least as a corporate entity you cannot easily export them.
  - int_19h 9y ago
    In US, as well. In fact, all kinds of things that have to do with both active IR, and protection against it, are regulated. For example, there's a popular firearm (and other things, technically, but it's mostly used for firearms) coating called Cerakote. Comes in a bunch of colors, including those commonly used for camouflage - indeed, you can mix and match to create some very impressive patterns. Example: http://i64.tinypic.com/21bw5lc.jpg http://i64.tinypic.com/21bw5lc.jpg This is available to civilians, and pretty popular - mostly for aesthetics, but it does work well as a camouflage. The catch is that, being an epoxy polymer coating, it reflects NIR really well - so for someone observing through a night vision device, these things basically glow, especially if an infrared illuminator is also used. But Cerakote also does have a version that was specifically designed to reduce the near-infrared signature to the point where it works just as well as camo in NIR, as it does in visual spectrum. Except it's only available to military and police - and I believe this is, in fact, because of some law that restricts them from offering it on civilian market.
  - int_19h 9y ago
    As for the "arms race" in IR, here's one specific example: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/10/12/swir-mawl-clad-now-even-invisible-ir-laser/ http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/10/12/swir-mawl-clad...
- oliwarner 9y ago
  I won't discount the other utilities of NIR night vision but for the purposes of detecting incoming infantry, it's overkill. Give me a cheap-ass webcam, a rapsberry pi 3 and a day or two to cobble together an OpenCV beam-detecting program in Python. A day or two more —perhaps with better hardware— and I'll give you GIS-aided positioning. That seems like it would be enough to defend a position. Even at other wavelengths, the sensor equipment is out there. I'm not sure what the SNR would be like on a varied focus 0.4μm (~bluray) sensor though.
  - int_19h 9y ago
    The point is that the laser will likely be infrared. And it might well be of a kind that you can't easily source sensors for.
    - oliwarner 9y ago
      Sorry, I'd switched to the side of the visible spectrum because a $2 webcam off ebay with its IR filter removed will pick up 830nm IR. That's what the AN/PEQ-2A uses. CMOS sensors pick up all sorts.

gaius 9y ago

You can but NODs retail now that are halfway as good as the military state-of-the-art but a tiny fraction of the price. People think the Taliban, ISIS et al are just these desert rednecks but the truth is that they are well trained (originally by US Special Forces to fight the Soviets), highly experienced - much more so than any Western soldier most of whom do only a couple of tours - well funded and technologically sophisticated enough to run advanced psyops via social media.

int_19h 9y ago

And we already use lasers heavily because of this. Ever noticed those square things mounted to the forends of M16 and M4 rifles in Iraq and Afghanistan? E.g. this photo from 2001 - notice how literally every guy in it has one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Marines_humping_in_Afghanistan,_November_2001.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Marines_humping_in_A... That thing is called AN/PEQ-2, and it is an near infrared (NIR) laser/illuminator. The reason why it's infrared, is because the enemy can't see it unless they have night vision (which works in near infrared). The illuminator is then used as a flashlight, essentially, and the laser is used to designate targets. Now, recently, groups like ISIS have been acquiring night vision devices in more substantial numbers. So now there's an arms race of sorts, where there are new devices like this that push the frequencies further down, such that most existing NIR devices cannot see it, but new and more expensive ones can. Presumably the same would apply to Trackpoint-like technology.

wnkrshm 9y ago
Interesting, didn't know about this 'race to thermal IR'. But what I do know is that op optical components suitable for thermal imaging systems are under export control in the EU. So at least as a corporate entity you cannot easily export them.
- int_19h 9y ago
  In US, as well. In fact, all kinds of things that have to do with both active IR, and protection against it, are regulated. For example, there's a popular firearm (and other things, technically, but it's mostly used for firearms) coating called Cerakote. Comes in a bunch of colors, including those commonly used for camouflage - indeed, you can mix and match to create some very impressive patterns. Example: http://i64.tinypic.com/21bw5lc.jpg http://i64.tinypic.com/21bw5lc.jpg This is available to civilians, and pretty popular - mostly for aesthetics, but it does work well as a camouflage. The catch is that, being an epoxy polymer coating, it reflects NIR really well - so for someone observing through a night vision device, these things basically glow, especially if an infrared illuminator is also used. But Cerakote also does have a version that was specifically designed to reduce the near-infrared signature to the point where it works just as well as camo in NIR, as it does in visual spectrum. Except it's only available to military and police - and I believe this is, in fact, because of some law that restricts them from offering it on civilian market.
- int_19h 9y ago
  As for the "arms race" in IR, here's one specific example: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/10/12/swir-mawl-clad-now-even-invisible-ir-laser/ http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/10/12/swir-mawl-clad...
oliwarner 9y ago
I won't discount the other utilities of NIR night vision but for the purposes of detecting incoming infantry, it's overkill. Give me a cheap-ass webcam, a rapsberry pi 3 and a day or two to cobble together an OpenCV beam-detecting program in Python. A day or two more —perhaps with better hardware— and I'll give you GIS-aided positioning. That seems like it would be enough to defend a position. Even at other wavelengths, the sensor equipment is out there. I'm not sure what the SNR would be like on a varied focus 0.4μm (~bluray) sensor though.
- int_19h 9y ago
  The point is that the laser will likely be infrared. And it might well be of a kind that you can't easily source sensors for.
  - oliwarner 9y ago
    Sorry, I'd switched to the side of the visible spectrum because a $2 webcam off ebay with its IR filter removed will pick up 830nm IR. That's what the AN/PEQ-2A uses. CMOS sensors pick up all sorts.