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It's like WWI all over again. In WWI, people went happily off to war thinking it's going to be nice and heroic and adventurous like the good old days and they

It's like WWI all over again. In WWI, people went happily off to war thinking it's going to be nice and heroic and adventurous like the good old days and they all get slaughtered in a pathetic pointless way in a blink of an eye by newly developed automated war machinery. The first AI War is going to be a really brutal wakeup call. The part in sci-fi where anyone actually has to aim to kill an enemy was a big romantic lie. The robots don't miss and they draw and shoot before the humans even know they're there. William Gibson, to his credit, did anticipate this with the Slamhound assassin robots in Count Zero.

reificator 9y ago
> The first AI War is going to be a really brutal wakeup call. I know. I thought I was decent at strategy games, but AI War shook that confidence to the bone. I don't think I've ever won a game. http://store.steampowered.com/app/40400/AI_War_Fleet_Command/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/40400/AI_War_Fleet_Command... On a serious note, you're absolutely right. Sci-Fi has been lying to us for a very long time and I don't think people are ready to face what the reality will be. > The robots don't miss and they draw and shoot before the humans even know they're there. Maybe, though if those robots are based on neural networks maybe we'll luck out and get a situation like this: https://xkcd.com/1897/ https://xkcd.com/1897/ To download your file: Please click all the squares containing traitorous human scum.
- RobertoG 9y ago
  "Sci-Fi has been lying to us for a very long time [..]" That's totally unfair. I think you have been reading the wrong science fiction.
int_19h 9y ago
You don't even need robots for that. You just need an advanced scope on a rifle that can still be transported by a human, and the human is also the one that identifies targets. Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0oGZ4TZr5k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0oGZ4TZr5k Now, we're not yet at the point where it's cost-effective to give every infantryman a thing like this - the scope alone costs more than most high-end sniper rifles. But costs will go down...
- oliwarner 9y ago
  I have to wonder how hard it would really be to detect and target somebody whose scope is laser-ranging and has wifi. These seem like tactical giveaways. That's not to say this sort of technology couldn't be useful, but putting active broadcasting equipment on your gun is going to backfire in next generation warfare.
  - wnkrshm 9y ago
    It's trivial to figure out where a ranging laser comes from, it's just that asymmetric warfare enables you to use them with impunity
    - gaius 9y ago
      You can but NODs retail now that are halfway as good as the military state-of-the-art but a tiny fraction of the price. People think the Taliban, ISIS et al are just these desert rednecks but the truth is that they are well trained (originally by US Special Forces to fight the Soviets), highly experienced - much more so than any Western soldier most of whom do only a couple of tours - well funded and technologically sophisticated enough to run advanced psyops via social media.
    - int_19h 9y ago
      And we already use lasers heavily because of this. Ever noticed those square things mounted to the forends of M16 and M4 rifles in Iraq and Afghanistan? E.g. this photo from 2001 - notice how literally every guy in it has one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Marines_humping_in_Afghanistan,_November_2001.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Marines_humping_in_A... That thing is called AN/PEQ-2, and it is an near infrared (NIR) laser/illuminator. The reason why it's infrared, is because the enemy can't see it unless they have night vision (which works in near infrared). The illuminator is then used as a flashlight, essentially, and the laser is used to designate targets. Now, recently, groups like ISIS have been acquiring night vision devices in more substantial numbers. So now there's an arms race of sorts, where there are new devices like this that push the frequencies further down, such that most existing NIR devices cannot see it, but new and more expensive ones can. Presumably the same would apply to Trackpoint-like technology.
danieltillett 9y ago
The most amazing thing about the Great War is not that people started out like this, but they continued once they knew the truth. We are very unlikely to get as wakeup call after any AI War because we will all be dead.
- QAPereo 9y ago
  Maybe if something develops intelligence and tool use after us, they can do a better job with it.
hans_mueller 9y ago
it also seems that most people are too optimistic with regards to involvement of robots and ai in war. first of all an asymmetric kill power distribution will lead to asymmetric war anyway - that's what is referred to as terrorism. if an opponent has no chance fighting a 1on1 battle they will resort to planting bombs in malls. and the idea that robots Will fight for humans is also very naive because if the robots are done on one side then humans will be back fighting.
espadrine 9y ago
> The first AI War is going to be a really brutal wakeup call Strange. The video and everyone here keeps talking about this as a scary future dystopia, while Pakistan and many other countries have been living in it for years. Drone strikes are exactly what the video describes: surgical precision attacks from machines with automatic weapons that the targets couldn't defend themselves from, used by both governments and terrorists, and routinely relying on mass surveillance for targeting. The weakly conveyed message of the video was that there needs to be a human pressing the trigger so that they can appreciate whether the act conflicts with their values, but we have millennia of evidence that humans can act mindlessly too.
YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago
"Heroic" and "adventurous" OK, but- "nice"? I can't believe anyone ever thought that going to war -to kill and risk getting killed- could be "nice", except perhaps for murderous psychopaths.
- Parcissons 9y ago
  I sense deep denial about your youth in this post. We all been there. When you are young you dream of going into history guns blazing. To declare that part as something that never happened is not only deeply dishonest with oneself and the species, it prepares the ground for future tragedies.
- jblazevic 9y ago
  It's a figure of speech meant to convey irony.
nick3499 9y ago
Grunts facing mini-drones. Helmet-penetrating explosives. Military sci-fi horror.

reificator 9y ago

> The first AI War is going to be a really brutal wakeup call. I know. I thought I was decent at strategy games, but AI War shook that confidence to the bone. I don't think I've ever won a game. http://store.steampowered.com/app/40400/AI_War_Fleet_Command/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/40400/AI_War_Fleet_Command... On a serious note, you're absolutely right. Sci-Fi has been lying to us for a very long time and I don't think people are ready to face what the reality will be. > The robots don't miss and they draw and shoot before the humans even know they're there. Maybe, though if those robots are based on neural networks maybe we'll luck out and get a situation like this: https://xkcd.com/1897/ https://xkcd.com/1897/ To download your file: Please click all the squares containing traitorous human scum.

RobertoG 9y ago
"Sci-Fi has been lying to us for a very long time [..]" That's totally unfair. I think you have been reading the wrong science fiction.

int_19h 9y ago

You don't even need robots for that. You just need an advanced scope on a rifle that can still be transported by a human, and the human is also the one that identifies targets. Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0oGZ4TZr5k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0oGZ4TZr5k Now, we're not yet at the point where it's cost-effective to give every infantryman a thing like this - the scope alone costs more than most high-end sniper rifles. But costs will go down...

oliwarner 9y ago
I have to wonder how hard it would really be to detect and target somebody whose scope is laser-ranging and has wifi. These seem like tactical giveaways. That's not to say this sort of technology couldn't be useful, but putting active broadcasting equipment on your gun is going to backfire in next generation warfare.
- wnkrshm 9y ago
  It's trivial to figure out where a ranging laser comes from, it's just that asymmetric warfare enables you to use them with impunity
  - gaius 9y ago
    You can but NODs retail now that are halfway as good as the military state-of-the-art but a tiny fraction of the price. People think the Taliban, ISIS et al are just these desert rednecks but the truth is that they are well trained (originally by US Special Forces to fight the Soviets), highly experienced - much more so than any Western soldier most of whom do only a couple of tours - well funded and technologically sophisticated enough to run advanced psyops via social media.
  - int_19h 9y ago
    And we already use lasers heavily because of this. Ever noticed those square things mounted to the forends of M16 and M4 rifles in Iraq and Afghanistan? E.g. this photo from 2001 - notice how literally every guy in it has one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Marines_humping_in_Afghanistan,_November_2001.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Marines_humping_in_A... That thing is called AN/PEQ-2, and it is an near infrared (NIR) laser/illuminator. The reason why it's infrared, is because the enemy can't see it unless they have night vision (which works in near infrared). The illuminator is then used as a flashlight, essentially, and the laser is used to designate targets. Now, recently, groups like ISIS have been acquiring night vision devices in more substantial numbers. So now there's an arms race of sorts, where there are new devices like this that push the frequencies further down, such that most existing NIR devices cannot see it, but new and more expensive ones can. Presumably the same would apply to Trackpoint-like technology.

danieltillett 9y ago

The most amazing thing about the Great War is not that people started out like this, but they continued once they knew the truth. We are very unlikely to get as wakeup call after any AI War because we will all be dead.

QAPereo 9y ago
Maybe if something develops intelligence and tool use after us, they can do a better job with it.

hans_mueller 9y ago

it also seems that most people are too optimistic with regards to involvement of robots and ai in war. first of all an asymmetric kill power distribution will lead to asymmetric war anyway - that's what is referred to as terrorism. if an opponent has no chance fighting a 1on1 battle they will resort to planting bombs in malls. and the idea that robots Will fight for humans is also very naive because if the robots are done on one side then humans will be back fighting.

espadrine 9y ago

> The first AI War is going to be a really brutal wakeup call Strange. The video and everyone here keeps talking about this as a scary future dystopia, while Pakistan and many other countries have been living in it for years. Drone strikes are exactly what the video describes: surgical precision attacks from machines with automatic weapons that the targets couldn't defend themselves from, used by both governments and terrorists, and routinely relying on mass surveillance for targeting. The weakly conveyed message of the video was that there needs to be a human pressing the trigger so that they can appreciate whether the act conflicts with their values, but we have millennia of evidence that humans can act mindlessly too.

YeGoblynQueenne 9y ago

"Heroic" and "adventurous" OK, but- "nice"? I can't believe anyone ever thought that going to war -to kill and risk getting killed- could be "nice", except perhaps for murderous psychopaths.

Parcissons 9y ago
I sense deep denial about your youth in this post. We all been there. When you are young you dream of going into history guns blazing. To declare that part as something that never happened is not only deeply dishonest with oneself and the species, it prepares the ground for future tragedies.
jblazevic 9y ago
It's a figure of speech meant to convey irony.

nick3499 9y ago

Grunts facing mini-drones. Helmet-penetrating explosives. Military sci-fi horror.