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Did you read the last link I cited? It mentions many Byzantine philosophers and their links to Aristotle. There is no serious suggestion that Aristotle ever die

by iorrus 9y ago

Did you read the last link I cited? It mentions many Byzantine philosophers and their links to Aristotle. There is no serious suggestion that Aristotle ever died out in Byzantium or that foreign intervention was required to rediscover him. Knowledge of Aristotle is assumed in most of the primary sources from that time. You must remember that all the original church fathers quoted and discussed Aristotle, so the Byzantine theology made frequent reference to him. He was part of the religious canon. Aristotle worship was wrong anyway, the Byzantines and Avicenna were right to concentrate on Plato and not the inferior Aristotle. Most of which was incorporated into early Christian theology, Aristotle was rightly marginalised but that doesn't mean he was forgotten.

boomboomsubban 9y ago
Your new article doesn't list anything new in the period discussed, a few people writing about his logic for hundreds of years. Going back to your first source offered, "It deserves to be noted that before the 12th century, the whole Byzantine output of Aristotelian commentaries dealt exclusively with the works on logic." Your opinion on what the better philosophy is does not matter. It's funny to see you take a neoplatonic view and try to argue that they welcomed competing ideas.
- iorrus 9y ago
  Yes they produced no new commentaries... Byzantiums were extremely conservative, they disdained innovation, so why would they write new commentaries where there were already several hundred years worth of commentaries? We have also lost a lot of Byzantium primary sources but it is obvious from reading the remaining primary sources that knowledge of Aristotle was assumed. It is not stated anywhere that Aristotle was "forgotten", in all the primary documents including Neoplatonic Aristotle is frequently mentioned. Where do you get the idea that Byzantium and Islam were in philosophic discourse? Also see this article: https://books.google.com/books?id=uU8Sgwge6NsC&pg=PA15&lpg=P.. https://books.google.com/books?id=uU8Sgwge6NsC&pg=PA15&lpg=P....
  - boomboomsubban 9y ago
    Your first post mentioned the Bibliotheca, a review of many books written during thi period about things that already had commentaries. Aristotle was neglected for centuries. What primary sources are you using? As none of the plethora you keep bringing up are primary. And why would something's state it had forgotten Aristotle? If you don't value something, it's just largely ignored. Many of the philosophers brought up in this discussion recorded contact with the Abbasid Caliphate in some manner. They shared a border and the Mediterranean, it would be hard not to be in contact. That one says the same as the rest.
    - iorrus 9y ago
      have you read Byzantine history? They were sworn enemies of Islam throughout this entire period not discussing the nuances of philosophy. I can keep citing articles claiming Aristotle was not forgotten but it seems pointless at this stage. Many of the early church fathers mention Aristotle. Aristotle was considered a minor philosopher throughout this time but his work was still available. Another article for you: https://books.google.ie/books?id=Hkf6n9oKFmYC&pg=PA159&lpg=PA159&dq=organon+byzantium&source=bl&ots=Cka5QjLhg7&sig=exm_U33pIz_XTEvTxwR869kxKzw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiw1PTitsvXAhVFBcAKHX4RA5UQ6AEIMDAB#v=onepage&q=organon%20byzantium&f=false https://books.google.ie/books?id=Hkf6n9oKFmYC&pg=PA159&lpg=P...
      - boomboomsubban 9y ago
        They weren't "sworn enemies," they were rival empires sharing a border. This led to frequent clashes, but there was also regular trade and diplomatic emissaries. That enables books to travel and ideas to spread. All of your articles say the same thing, quoting again, "It deserves to be noted that before the 12th century, the whole Byzantine output of Aristotelian commentaries dealt exclusively with the works on logic." That's basically my point, his philosophical work was ignored. All of your sources have supported this, you even seem to be searching specifically for sources saying this now judging by that link. What you haven't shown is any serious thought put into his philosophical work during that period, or given any other cause for his sudden resurgence besides Islamic influence. You're trying to disprove my argument that he was ignored until the Islamic works by saying "see they said Aristotle in 750, he wasn't forgotten."
iorrus 9y ago
I can't seem to reply to your comment below. Yes they produced no new commentaries... Byzantiums were extremely conservative, they disdained innovation, so why would they write new commentaries where there were already several hundred years worth of commentaries? We have also lost a lot of Byzantium primary sources but it is obvious from reading the remaining primary sources that knowledge of Aristotle was assumed. It is not stated anywhere that Aristotle was "forgotten", in all the primary documents including Neoplatonic Aristotle is frequently mentioned. Where do you get the idea that Byzantium and Islam were in philosophic discourse? Also see this article: https://books.google.com/books?id=uU8Sgwge6NsC&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=arethas+letters+to+niketas+aristotle&source=bl&ots=Vu-Nmyqfhn&sig=RZGXnCT7328QY7GdnxwnLpsQK5s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjB8NHn4MrXAhWFWRoKHTsnDKEQ6AEINTAF#v=onepage&q=arethas%20letters%20to%20niketas%20aristotle&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=uU8Sgwge6NsC&pg=PA15&lpg=P...

by iorrus 9y ago

boomboomsubban 9y ago

Your new article doesn't list anything new in the period discussed, a few people writing about his logic for hundreds of years. Going back to your first source offered, "It deserves to be noted that before the 12th century, the whole Byzantine output of Aristotelian commentaries dealt exclusively with the works on logic." Your opinion on what the better philosophy is does not matter. It's funny to see you take a neoplatonic view and try to argue that they welcomed competing ideas.

iorrus 9y ago
Yes they produced no new commentaries... Byzantiums were extremely conservative, they disdained innovation, so why would they write new commentaries where there were already several hundred years worth of commentaries? We have also lost a lot of Byzantium primary sources but it is obvious from reading the remaining primary sources that knowledge of Aristotle was assumed. It is not stated anywhere that Aristotle was "forgotten", in all the primary documents including Neoplatonic Aristotle is frequently mentioned. Where do you get the idea that Byzantium and Islam were in philosophic discourse? Also see this article: https://books.google.com/books?id=uU8Sgwge6NsC&pg=PA15&lpg=P.. https://books.google.com/books?id=uU8Sgwge6NsC&pg=PA15&lpg=P....
- boomboomsubban 9y ago
  Your first post mentioned the Bibliotheca, a review of many books written during thi period about things that already had commentaries. Aristotle was neglected for centuries. What primary sources are you using? As none of the plethora you keep bringing up are primary. And why would something's state it had forgotten Aristotle? If you don't value something, it's just largely ignored. Many of the philosophers brought up in this discussion recorded contact with the Abbasid Caliphate in some manner. They shared a border and the Mediterranean, it would be hard not to be in contact. That one says the same as the rest.
  - iorrus 9y ago
    have you read Byzantine history? They were sworn enemies of Islam throughout this entire period not discussing the nuances of philosophy. I can keep citing articles claiming Aristotle was not forgotten but it seems pointless at this stage. Many of the early church fathers mention Aristotle. Aristotle was considered a minor philosopher throughout this time but his work was still available. Another article for you: https://books.google.ie/books?id=Hkf6n9oKFmYC&pg=PA159&lpg=PA159&dq=organon+byzantium&source=bl&ots=Cka5QjLhg7&sig=exm_U33pIz_XTEvTxwR869kxKzw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiw1PTitsvXAhVFBcAKHX4RA5UQ6AEIMDAB#v=onepage&q=organon%20byzantium&f=false https://books.google.ie/books?id=Hkf6n9oKFmYC&pg=PA159&lpg=P...
    - boomboomsubban 9y ago
      They weren't "sworn enemies," they were rival empires sharing a border. This led to frequent clashes, but there was also regular trade and diplomatic emissaries. That enables books to travel and ideas to spread. All of your articles say the same thing, quoting again, "It deserves to be noted that before the 12th century, the whole Byzantine output of Aristotelian commentaries dealt exclusively with the works on logic." That's basically my point, his philosophical work was ignored. All of your sources have supported this, you even seem to be searching specifically for sources saying this now judging by that link. What you haven't shown is any serious thought put into his philosophical work during that period, or given any other cause for his sudden resurgence besides Islamic influence. You're trying to disprove my argument that he was ignored until the Islamic works by saying "see they said Aristotle in 750, he wasn't forgotten."

iorrus 9y ago

I can't seem to reply to your comment below. Yes they produced no new commentaries... Byzantiums were extremely conservative, they disdained innovation, so why would they write new commentaries where there were already several hundred years worth of commentaries? We have also lost a lot of Byzantium primary sources but it is obvious from reading the remaining primary sources that knowledge of Aristotle was assumed. It is not stated anywhere that Aristotle was "forgotten", in all the primary documents including Neoplatonic Aristotle is frequently mentioned. Where do you get the idea that Byzantium and Islam were in philosophic discourse? Also see this article: https://books.google.com/books?id=uU8Sgwge6NsC&pg=PA15&lpg=PA15&dq=arethas+letters+to+niketas+aristotle&source=bl&ots=Vu-Nmyqfhn&sig=RZGXnCT7328QY7GdnxwnLpsQK5s&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjB8NHn4MrXAhWFWRoKHTsnDKEQ6AEINTAF#v=onepage&q=arethas%20letters%20to%20niketas%20aristotle&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=uU8Sgwge6NsC&pg=PA15&lpg=P...