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> move to harm Indian IT professionals Title of the story linked-to is quite sensational. I'm not a fan of the current administration at all, but as a former

> move to harm Indian IT professionals Title of the story linked-to is quite sensational. I'm not a fan of the current administration at all, but as a former (Indian) H1-B visa holder myself, I welcome this move. It's clearly aimed at the top 10 H1-B visa abusers, almost all Indian Companies - think Tata Consultancy Services, Cognizant Technologies, Wipro, Tech Manhindra etc - who grossly underpay the Indian software engineers and abuse H1-B visa program. Now these crooks won't be able to file Labor Certificate applications with very low prevailing wages, and I think this will help real startups and software companies everywhere in the US, who can't find top engineers in US for new technologies, hire people from Europe, Asia and other parts of the world who are qualified, and not just from India. Code-monkey Indians and the companies that try to bring them in on low wages will automatically get filtered out.

conanbatt 9y ago
> H1-B visa abusers What is a visa abuser. What a ridiculous term. If the limit of visas was tripled then there would not even be a concept of "visa abuser". Crooks? The crooks sir are on the other side of the table, that feel powerful enough to tell people all both within and outside the country that they have the right to tell them where they are allowed to go.
- jimbobimbo 9y ago
  How else would you call companies that take the majority of all H1-Bs issued, then turn around and resell newly minted immigrants' services to other companies? There're a lot of companies of different sizes that legitimately bring foreigners to fill the gaps not filled by local workforce, but bodyshops named in GP's post aren't those companies.
  - conanbatt 9y ago
    I could call them victims of a perverse system, one not designed nor controlled by them, much like the people left out because of imaginary quotas.
- jrs95 9y ago
  It's not a ridiculous term. Many companies abuse the H1B visa program to keep wages down at the expense of pretty much everyone but corporate interests that save a little money. It's terrible for the visa holders as well, they get stuck in shitty positions with low pay. And yes, the government does in fact have the right to say who can come and work inside the country. That's sort of a fundamental right of a nation. If you don't have that, you essentially don't have a nation at all.
  - conanbatt 9y ago
    - The law which put an end to all prosecutions against witchcraft, which put it out of any man’s power to gratify his own malice by accusing his neighbour of that imaginary crime, seems effectually to have put an end to those fears and suspicions by taking away the great cause which encouraged and supported them. The only reason why anyone even thinks of the term H1B abuser its because there are more people that apply to it than it allows: because it has constraint supply. If it didnt, the concept would not even exist (as it is for B1 abusers, or F1 abusers, etc). > And yes, the government does in fact have the right to say who can come and work inside the country. That's sort of a fundamental right of a nation. If you don't have that, you essentially don't have a nation at all. It depends on your interpretation of a country, US or its constitution. The government has the capacity to do all that. The 'right' is an entirely different matter.
- jaredklewis 9y ago
  It seems your point is that people should have freedom of movement and freedom to work in the US, and that is a laudable goal I think many here are sympathetic to. But that is not the issue being discussed. Visa abusers are companies that use the poor design of the H1-B visa system to underpay engineers (which many argue suppresses wages in the market at large). Because H1-B visa holders cannot easily switch employers while keeping their visa, their employer has extreme leverage over them, which they use to underpay pay them.
  - conanbatt 9y ago
    > But that is not the issue being discussed. Visa abusers are companies that use the poor design of the H1-B visa system to underpay engineers It is the very H1B limit that underpays engineers, by making it harder to foreign engineers to pick employers appropriately. All the restrictions on H1B lower their wages by design. It is not the goal of this change in policy to help foreign engineers. They dont have a voice or a vote here. It is not the goal of this change in policy to help americans. Providing cheaper labor will either cheapen or widen products offered, much like the importation of anything else. It is not the goal of this change in policy to help or harm companies. It harms some as much as it benefits others. Its just picking different. It is not the goal of this change in policy to help american software engineers. The corollary of the one above is that if higher talent comes, wages of higher talent will go down, and wages of the less skilled will go up. Let it be very clear that in any effect, the only true effect of a change of policy like this is to provide a warm filling in the chest of those who do not understand the economic implications of it.
codeonfire 9y ago
Also should mention these companies are openly tolerated by the government for their extreme racist hiring policy, violating every conceivable US law, hiring upwards of 98% Indian race only in the United States. But it's alright because it's just "engineers" not important people, right?
- StudentStuff 9y ago
  Cheaper & it looks better to get an indentured servant from India to fulfill a contract than an American, causing requirement inflation and wage stagnation for everyone involved.
- wallace_f 9y ago
  Racism is defined academically as 'privilege + power,' so if you say "I am an Indian and will only hire Indians," that has historically been just fine. This definition is interpreted as "you need to be White to be racist." Diversity is mostly just defined as "not White," so majority Indian, Black, etc. companies, are "diverse," they exist, and no one goes after them. This is why you have those majority-xyz-race companies, but Apple's chief of diversity was fired for saying Whites can also be diverse if they come from diverse backgrounds.
  - kohjhhd 9y ago
    Yeah a completely bankrupt concept. Rascism occurs to all sorts and types in all conditions.
  - thunfischbrot 9y ago
    If you are an employer such as Tech Mahindra or Tata and only considering Indians for a job, do you not wield power?
    - wallace_f 9y ago
      Yes, of course. That's why everyone should be treated as equals regardless of race, gender, religion, etc. This convoluted system of privilege is concerning. Consider a poor White born into an abusive family, in a rural area, with no inheritance. This qualifies as "privileged" under current dogma. They pretend like these kinds of people don't exist. It's more of a class war being disguised as a race war.
shas3 9y ago
“Code-monkey Indians” Huh? Casual racism.
- justboxing 9y ago
  I'm Indian calling my own people 'Code-monkey Indians'. My friends have told me that this makes me a 'reverse racist' i.e. racist on my own people. Not sure if that makes sense but it's funny and I whole-heartedly embrace that title :)
Antrikshy 9y ago
The sensationalist title is to be expected from a not-so-well-known Indian news outlet.
dang 9y ago
> Code-monkey Indians I realize (because you say it below) that you're Indian so it feels ok to say this. That might be true in person, but not here. You're broadcasting to a far larger audience with far less information about your intent. In this context, subtleties with slurs (such as 'it's a self-slur too, so that's ok') aren't really possible. If you casually drop the slur in anyway, you're damaging the container that protects what little kindness we have here, so we'd appreciate it if you'd not do this sort of thing.

conanbatt 9y ago

> H1-B visa abusers What is a visa abuser. What a ridiculous term. If the limit of visas was tripled then there would not even be a concept of "visa abuser". Crooks? The crooks sir are on the other side of the table, that feel powerful enough to tell people all both within and outside the country that they have the right to tell them where they are allowed to go.

jimbobimbo 9y ago
How else would you call companies that take the majority of all H1-Bs issued, then turn around and resell newly minted immigrants' services to other companies? There're a lot of companies of different sizes that legitimately bring foreigners to fill the gaps not filled by local workforce, but bodyshops named in GP's post aren't those companies.
- conanbatt 9y ago
  I could call them victims of a perverse system, one not designed nor controlled by them, much like the people left out because of imaginary quotas.
jrs95 9y ago
It's not a ridiculous term. Many companies abuse the H1B visa program to keep wages down at the expense of pretty much everyone but corporate interests that save a little money. It's terrible for the visa holders as well, they get stuck in shitty positions with low pay. And yes, the government does in fact have the right to say who can come and work inside the country. That's sort of a fundamental right of a nation. If you don't have that, you essentially don't have a nation at all.
- conanbatt 9y ago
  - The law which put an end to all prosecutions against witchcraft, which put it out of any man’s power to gratify his own malice by accusing his neighbour of that imaginary crime, seems effectually to have put an end to those fears and suspicions by taking away the great cause which encouraged and supported them. The only reason why anyone even thinks of the term H1B abuser its because there are more people that apply to it than it allows: because it has constraint supply. If it didnt, the concept would not even exist (as it is for B1 abusers, or F1 abusers, etc). > And yes, the government does in fact have the right to say who can come and work inside the country. That's sort of a fundamental right of a nation. If you don't have that, you essentially don't have a nation at all. It depends on your interpretation of a country, US or its constitution. The government has the capacity to do all that. The 'right' is an entirely different matter.
jaredklewis 9y ago
It seems your point is that people should have freedom of movement and freedom to work in the US, and that is a laudable goal I think many here are sympathetic to. But that is not the issue being discussed. Visa abusers are companies that use the poor design of the H1-B visa system to underpay engineers (which many argue suppresses wages in the market at large). Because H1-B visa holders cannot easily switch employers while keeping their visa, their employer has extreme leverage over them, which they use to underpay pay them.
- conanbatt 9y ago
  > But that is not the issue being discussed. Visa abusers are companies that use the poor design of the H1-B visa system to underpay engineers It is the very H1B limit that underpays engineers, by making it harder to foreign engineers to pick employers appropriately. All the restrictions on H1B lower their wages by design. It is not the goal of this change in policy to help foreign engineers. They dont have a voice or a vote here. It is not the goal of this change in policy to help americans. Providing cheaper labor will either cheapen or widen products offered, much like the importation of anything else. It is not the goal of this change in policy to help or harm companies. It harms some as much as it benefits others. Its just picking different. It is not the goal of this change in policy to help american software engineers. The corollary of the one above is that if higher talent comes, wages of higher talent will go down, and wages of the less skilled will go up. Let it be very clear that in any effect, the only true effect of a change of policy like this is to provide a warm filling in the chest of those who do not understand the economic implications of it.

codeonfire 9y ago

Also should mention these companies are openly tolerated by the government for their extreme racist hiring policy, violating every conceivable US law, hiring upwards of 98% Indian race only in the United States. But it's alright because it's just "engineers" not important people, right?

StudentStuff 9y ago
Cheaper & it looks better to get an indentured servant from India to fulfill a contract than an American, causing requirement inflation and wage stagnation for everyone involved.
wallace_f 9y ago
Racism is defined academically as 'privilege + power,' so if you say "I am an Indian and will only hire Indians," that has historically been just fine. This definition is interpreted as "you need to be White to be racist." Diversity is mostly just defined as "not White," so majority Indian, Black, etc. companies, are "diverse," they exist, and no one goes after them. This is why you have those majority-xyz-race companies, but Apple's chief of diversity was fired for saying Whites can also be diverse if they come from diverse backgrounds.
- kohjhhd 9y ago
  Yeah a completely bankrupt concept. Rascism occurs to all sorts and types in all conditions.
- thunfischbrot 9y ago
  If you are an employer such as Tech Mahindra or Tata and only considering Indians for a job, do you not wield power?
  - wallace_f 9y ago
    Yes, of course. That's why everyone should be treated as equals regardless of race, gender, religion, etc. This convoluted system of privilege is concerning. Consider a poor White born into an abusive family, in a rural area, with no inheritance. This qualifies as "privileged" under current dogma. They pretend like these kinds of people don't exist. It's more of a class war being disguised as a race war.

shas3 9y ago

“Code-monkey Indians” Huh? Casual racism.

justboxing 9y ago
I'm Indian calling my own people 'Code-monkey Indians'. My friends have told me that this makes me a 'reverse racist' i.e. racist on my own people. Not sure if that makes sense but it's funny and I whole-heartedly embrace that title :)

Antrikshy 9y ago

The sensationalist title is to be expected from a not-so-well-known Indian news outlet.

dang 9y ago

> Code-monkey Indians I realize (because you say it below) that you're Indian so it feels ok to say this. That might be true in person, but not here. You're broadcasting to a far larger audience with far less information about your intent. In this context, subtleties with slurs (such as 'it's a self-slur too, so that's ok') aren't really possible. If you casually drop the slur in anyway, you're damaging the container that protects what little kindness we have here, so we'd appreciate it if you'd not do this sort of thing.