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> So does uefi support multi boot or not? UEFI was pretty much designed to solve the multi boot issue in a clean way where different OSes don’t step on each ot

> So does uefi support multi boot or not? UEFI was pretty much designed to solve the multi boot issue in a clean way where different OSes don’t step on each other’s toes and creates issues. This has worked fine from day one, even from a single physical volume.

Celarnor 9y ago
It works fine except when it doesn't, which is most of the time (either secureboot, or the EFI boot manager, or the Windows 8+ "fast startup" thing that can turn itself on during an update and sets the EFI next-boot option, permanently overriding any GRUB selection until you turn it back off from inside Windows..) Compared to how hassle-free multiple operating systems is to do via legacy boot, UEFI feels incredibly backward. It feels unfinished, is fragile and breaks far too easily for something so critical. I'm not looking forward to it being taken away. Guess I'll have to ditch my other OSes and do my important work in a VM.
- josteink 9y ago
  > It works fine except when it doesn't That can be said about anything. > which is most of the time Not to come off snarky, but citation needed. > either secureboot, or the EFI boot manager What issues do they cause? Really? > Windows 8+ "fast startup" thing that can turn itself on during an update and sets the EFI next-boot option Clearly annoying, but easily fixed. I'd rather have this once a year than Windows deciding it has the right to write to my MBR, and overwrite GRUB, causing my Linux installation to be unbootable without a recovery-disk. > Compared to how hassle-free multiple operating systems is to do via legacy boot That may be true for multi-volume scenarios. For systems with one volume only however (like most laptops), it's absolute the opposite. > It feels unfinished, is fragile and breaks far too easily for something so critical My experience is quite the opposite. With UEFI I feel I can fearlessly dual/multi boot several operating systems without fear that one OS is going to mess up another one. And I know that if something happens once a leap year or so, EFI has proper tooling so it's easy to fix, unlike black-boxed MBR bootloaders and the hacks involved with chain-loading different OSes on top of them.
  - Aardwolf 9y ago
    So from what I understand from these replies: 1. Windows will decide to undo your boot settings or grub every now and then? How can it do that, and can Linux do it too? If UEFI is "secure", is there no way to securely prevent windows from changing it? 2. UEFI does NOT support multiboot on multiple volumes? You cannot install different OSes on different disks? What if you put multiple SSD's and HDD's in a desktop computer, can you install a different OS on each and boot to any with UEFI? What about booting from USB sticks?
    - josteink 9y ago
      1. Any OS can update which UEFI boot-target is the default one (this is what parent poster complains about). It should however not interfere with another OSes config or files. Windows does not touch Grub (or the other way around). That messy, unsafe and unreliable approach is reserved for legacy BIOS boot. 2. UEFI supports clean and safe separation between boot-targets, across single volumes, multiple volumes and networks targets with cryptographic verification if desired (Secure boot). UEFI supports everything traditional BIOS boot supports and more. The same can not be said the other way around. It also boot straight into long-mode, meaning you don’t have to implement X86 mode-golf (and similar lessons in ancient history) at all in your OS-loader. UEFI is rather overengineered, but it’s clearly a better approach with better support for modern use-cases built into the core design. Think of UEFI as Grub built into your machine. With UEFI your individual OS’s bootloader should no longer need to handle/be aware of multi-booting. They should only boot themselves.
      - Aardwolf 9y ago
        What did you mean in the previous reply with "That may be true for multi-volume scenario"? Did it mean multi volume is NOT hassle-free with UEFI? Thanks
        josteink 9y ago
        UEFI has no issues with multi-volume setups. They are hassle free. My focus one single volume setups was really because this is where traditional legacy BIOS boot gets messy and unreliable if you want to setup dual/multi-booting, and UEFI is objectively superior in every way.

Celarnor 9y ago

It works fine except when it doesn't, which is most of the time (either secureboot, or the EFI boot manager, or the Windows 8+ "fast startup" thing that can turn itself on during an update and sets the EFI next-boot option, permanently overriding any GRUB selection until you turn it back off from inside Windows..) Compared to how hassle-free multiple operating systems is to do via legacy boot, UEFI feels incredibly backward. It feels unfinished, is fragile and breaks far too easily for something so critical. I'm not looking forward to it being taken away. Guess I'll have to ditch my other OSes and do my important work in a VM.

josteink 9y ago
> It works fine except when it doesn't That can be said about anything. > which is most of the time Not to come off snarky, but citation needed. > either secureboot, or the EFI boot manager What issues do they cause? Really? > Windows 8+ "fast startup" thing that can turn itself on during an update and sets the EFI next-boot option Clearly annoying, but easily fixed. I'd rather have this once a year than Windows deciding it has the right to write to my MBR, and overwrite GRUB, causing my Linux installation to be unbootable without a recovery-disk. > Compared to how hassle-free multiple operating systems is to do via legacy boot That may be true for multi-volume scenarios. For systems with one volume only however (like most laptops), it's absolute the opposite. > It feels unfinished, is fragile and breaks far too easily for something so critical My experience is quite the opposite. With UEFI I feel I can fearlessly dual/multi boot several operating systems without fear that one OS is going to mess up another one. And I know that if something happens once a leap year or so, EFI has proper tooling so it's easy to fix, unlike black-boxed MBR bootloaders and the hacks involved with chain-loading different OSes on top of them.
- Aardwolf 9y ago
  So from what I understand from these replies: 1. Windows will decide to undo your boot settings or grub every now and then? How can it do that, and can Linux do it too? If UEFI is "secure", is there no way to securely prevent windows from changing it? 2. UEFI does NOT support multiboot on multiple volumes? You cannot install different OSes on different disks? What if you put multiple SSD's and HDD's in a desktop computer, can you install a different OS on each and boot to any with UEFI? What about booting from USB sticks?
  - josteink 9y ago
    1. Any OS can update which UEFI boot-target is the default one (this is what parent poster complains about). It should however not interfere with another OSes config or files. Windows does not touch Grub (or the other way around). That messy, unsafe and unreliable approach is reserved for legacy BIOS boot. 2. UEFI supports clean and safe separation between boot-targets, across single volumes, multiple volumes and networks targets with cryptographic verification if desired (Secure boot). UEFI supports everything traditional BIOS boot supports and more. The same can not be said the other way around. It also boot straight into long-mode, meaning you don’t have to implement X86 mode-golf (and similar lessons in ancient history) at all in your OS-loader. UEFI is rather overengineered, but it’s clearly a better approach with better support for modern use-cases built into the core design. Think of UEFI as Grub built into your machine. With UEFI your individual OS’s bootloader should no longer need to handle/be aware of multi-booting. They should only boot themselves.
    - Aardwolf 9y ago
      What did you mean in the previous reply with "That may be true for multi-volume scenario"? Did it mean multi volume is NOT hassle-free with UEFI? Thanks
      - josteink 9y ago
        UEFI has no issues with multi-volume setups. They are hassle free. My focus one single volume setups was really because this is where traditional legacy BIOS boot gets messy and unreliable if you want to setup dual/multi-booting, and UEFI is objectively superior in every way.