6 ms·

Ah, another "there's both good and bad people on both sides" sentiment. No. Quantitative analysis matters. Also, as to your last sentence: "same goes for *"

Ah, another "there's both good and bad people on both sides" sentiment. No. Quantitative analysis matters. Also, as to your last sentence: "same goes for *" doesn't have any meaningful substance behind it and its only goal is to drag the discussion out so far as to exhaust the other side into giving up.

dogma1138 9y ago
Let’s make it simple then. How many people do you think have died due to Trumps policies so far, out of those how many of them are Americans?
- mrgordon 9y ago
  Not a great argument. Most of Trump's policies like expanding use of coal and not taking actions to prevent flooding and other consequences of global warming will be felt in 10, 20, or maybe even 50 years. By reversing course and burying the facts, he is still responsible for them in a way that Obama (who tried to work on the problem) was not. Even more directly, Trump is in the process of gutting our healthcare, education, and taxes (read: infrastructure). If he had a few more votes in the Senate, they would have already undermined/removed even more of our social safety net. Millions of people will have significantly worse quality of life and for many of them it will mean the difference between life and death. Their medicines will get too expensive...they won't be able to afford to see a doctor in some cases...or get surgery or chemo in many more. To say that Trump's policies aren't killing people (and especially Americans) is to ignore anything but soldiers from the count. Obama largely inherited Bush Jr's wars (and Bush Jr. was largely continuing Bush Sr's wars) so you're welcome to blame him for the deaths there but he probably had fewer options than you imply. Not to say he did nothing wrong, but Trump is literally threatening to nuke North Korea which is orders of magnitude different from how Obama acted even once in eight years.
  - dogma1138 9y ago
    It is, because the original poster said that for the people who are dying now because of his actions it’s a life and death situation. I want to know who are these people. Don’t get me wrong I agree with you on most things, that said I don’t actually see the US being much worse on climate change than under previous administrations they are just louder and more obnoxious about it (which ironically might actually push things for the better). My problem is that I’ve seen too many people who claim trump is literally killing people and they don’t mean people in Bangladesh that might die to future floods due to climate change. They usually would say “Trump is killing a minority/political_group_x” and those statements are pretty darn baseless, actually I take that back, he's definitely killing the republican party and also the center democrats.
    - Mithaldu 9y ago
      I never said "now". And the post previous is right. Climate change is the big one. It affects the entire planet. However the, for a better word, desocialization of the USA is also a big factor both inside the country, and outside of it due to people who associate with or are relatives of americans being affected, or resources that would be used to help improve situations in other countries being tied up with emergencies in-country that would otherwise be handled by funds that are now going to tax breaks. Then there's also the situation in Yemen which the USA is indirectly responsible for. And there's the situation in Puerto Rico, which is nominally american, but i think if a people don't get to vote, they get to be counted as a different country.
      - dogma1138 9y ago
        The situation in Yemen started way before Trump, Yemen, Libya and Syria are a failure of US foreign policy which predates Trump; Obama had a much bigger role in them. Yemen like Syria is a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran. The previous administration for better or for worse empowered Iran. Much of the mess was predicted by quite a few analysts shortly after Obama’s speech to the Arab world in Cairo. As far as the hurricanes concern; while I don’t think it was handled well, but in actuality I don’t actually see much difference between now and how the US handled natural disasters in the past; the response was pretty much always shitty. And yes you kinda said now when you said trump is literally killing people and to them “resistance” (to his policies I assume) is a matter of life and death.

dogma1138 9y ago

Let’s make it simple then. How many people do you think have died due to Trumps policies so far, out of those how many of them are Americans?

mrgordon 9y ago
Not a great argument. Most of Trump's policies like expanding use of coal and not taking actions to prevent flooding and other consequences of global warming will be felt in 10, 20, or maybe even 50 years. By reversing course and burying the facts, he is still responsible for them in a way that Obama (who tried to work on the problem) was not. Even more directly, Trump is in the process of gutting our healthcare, education, and taxes (read: infrastructure). If he had a few more votes in the Senate, they would have already undermined/removed even more of our social safety net. Millions of people will have significantly worse quality of life and for many of them it will mean the difference between life and death. Their medicines will get too expensive...they won't be able to afford to see a doctor in some cases...or get surgery or chemo in many more. To say that Trump's policies aren't killing people (and especially Americans) is to ignore anything but soldiers from the count. Obama largely inherited Bush Jr's wars (and Bush Jr. was largely continuing Bush Sr's wars) so you're welcome to blame him for the deaths there but he probably had fewer options than you imply. Not to say he did nothing wrong, but Trump is literally threatening to nuke North Korea which is orders of magnitude different from how Obama acted even once in eight years.
- dogma1138 9y ago
  It is, because the original poster said that for the people who are dying now because of his actions it’s a life and death situation. I want to know who are these people. Don’t get me wrong I agree with you on most things, that said I don’t actually see the US being much worse on climate change than under previous administrations they are just louder and more obnoxious about it (which ironically might actually push things for the better). My problem is that I’ve seen too many people who claim trump is literally killing people and they don’t mean people in Bangladesh that might die to future floods due to climate change. They usually would say “Trump is killing a minority/political_group_x” and those statements are pretty darn baseless, actually I take that back, he's definitely killing the republican party and also the center democrats.
  - Mithaldu 9y ago
    I never said "now". And the post previous is right. Climate change is the big one. It affects the entire planet. However the, for a better word, desocialization of the USA is also a big factor both inside the country, and outside of it due to people who associate with or are relatives of americans being affected, or resources that would be used to help improve situations in other countries being tied up with emergencies in-country that would otherwise be handled by funds that are now going to tax breaks. Then there's also the situation in Yemen which the USA is indirectly responsible for. And there's the situation in Puerto Rico, which is nominally american, but i think if a people don't get to vote, they get to be counted as a different country.
    - dogma1138 9y ago
      The situation in Yemen started way before Trump, Yemen, Libya and Syria are a failure of US foreign policy which predates Trump; Obama had a much bigger role in them. Yemen like Syria is a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran. The previous administration for better or for worse empowered Iran. Much of the mess was predicted by quite a few analysts shortly after Obama’s speech to the Arab world in Cairo. As far as the hurricanes concern; while I don’t think it was handled well, but in actuality I don’t actually see much difference between now and how the US handled natural disasters in the past; the response was pretty much always shitty. And yes you kinda said now when you said trump is literally killing people and to them “resistance” (to his policies I assume) is a matter of life and death.