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You are being naive. You can not operate a business the size of Kaspersky in Russia without being a part of the the inner circle.

by qaq 9y ago

gralx 9y ago
What's the cutoff size, how was it determined, and by whom?
nasredin 9y ago
If you want to do bussiness in Russia you will have to deal with organized crime and or the government which is very often the same people.
- snowpanda 9y ago
  Ok so I know very little about Russia, where would one go to verify that claim? I'm not disputing it at all, just trying to inform myself. One of the reasons I ask, is related to Telegram. I'm aware of the crypto argument. But it seems (from the outside, so could be a complete cover of course) that Pavel Durov is somewhat taking a stand against their government[1][2][3]. Is that simply because he has enough money to do so? Or is it just a show to give people the idea he's taking a stand? [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-telegram-security/telegram-app-agrees-to-register-in-russia-but-not-to-share-private-data-idUSKBN19J1RK https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-telegram-security/... [2] https://www.neowin.net/news/russian-government-fines-telegram-for-refusing-to-give-up-user-data https://www.neowin.net/news/russian-government-fines-telegra... [3] https://www.deepdotweb.com/2017/10/30/russian-government-fines-telegram-not-providing-backdoor/ https://www.deepdotweb.com/2017/10/30/russian-government-fin...
  - qaq 9y ago
    Right after he lost control of his company (FB clone) when he refused to shut down opposition related groups on it. He openly talked about pressure from FSB etc. Telegram is not run out of Russia and Durov does not live in Russia. So if you don't mind loosing all your russian assets and living in exile you sure can speak out :)
    - ryanlol 9y ago
      >Telegram is not run out of Russia and Durov does not live in Russia FWIW this is bullshit, telegram office in St. Petersburg is literally one floor below the VK office and Durov is regularly present there. The whole exile thing is a charade, they’ve gone as far as assaulting people to try to keep it up https://m.lenta.ru/news/2017/03/20/durov/ https://m.lenta.ru/news/2017/03/20/durov/
RobertoG 9y ago
You can say the same about every country. That's the nature of networks of power. Or in other words, when you operate a business of considerable size you start being part of the inner circle.
- ajross 9y ago
  > You can say the same about every country No, you can't, except in some abstract sense that loses all meaning. In the west, it's routine to find wealthy and powerful members of the establishment pursue goals and policies that are directly opposed to the government with both success and failure. And of course these governments change hands relatively commonly. In Russia, there are no wealthy or powerful people pursuing anything but Putin's agenda. All those who tried have been removed, via various methods ranging from banal to horrifying. Now I'm sure there are nuts on the internet who will try to claim that the political divisions of the west are "really" just a front for a kleptrocrat cabal or whatever. But in the real world we have one country arresting its enemies and a bunch that don't, and that distinction matters.
  - seppin 9y ago
    Amazing that people don't see this still. Kaspersky insists that his company has an exception, and it "doesn't work like that", but it's hard to believe. And if you're part of the US IC, it'd be malpractice to believe him.
    - collectively 9y ago
      The nature of the relationship is unknown. Even if Kaspersky is bought by Putin in some way, it’s not clear what the terms and expectations are. It does seem unlikely that the commercial offering is straight up spyware for putin—why would anyone buy it? So it’s a little silly to talk about the relationship as if its existence is meaningful when the degree of ownership is the real question.
      - ajross 9y ago

You are being naive. You can not operate a business the size of Kaspersky in Russia without being a part of the the inner circle.

by qaq 9y ago

You are being naive. You can not operate a business the size of Kaspersky in Russia without being a part of the the inner circle.

gralx 9y ago

What's the cutoff size, how was it determined, and by whom?

nasredin 9y ago

If you want to do bussiness in Russia you will have to deal with organized crime and or the government which is very often the same people.

snowpanda 9y ago
Ok so I know very little about Russia, where would one go to verify that claim? I'm not disputing it at all, just trying to inform myself. One of the reasons I ask, is related to Telegram. I'm aware of the crypto argument. But it seems (from the outside, so could be a complete cover of course) that Pavel Durov is somewhat taking a stand against their government[1][2][3]. Is that simply because he has enough money to do so? Or is it just a show to give people the idea he's taking a stand? [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-telegram-security/telegram-app-agrees-to-register-in-russia-but-not-to-share-private-data-idUSKBN19J1RK https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-telegram-security/... [2] https://www.neowin.net/news/russian-government-fines-telegram-for-refusing-to-give-up-user-data https://www.neowin.net/news/russian-government-fines-telegra... [3] https://www.deepdotweb.com/2017/10/30/russian-government-fines-telegram-not-providing-backdoor/ https://www.deepdotweb.com/2017/10/30/russian-government-fin...
- qaq 9y ago
  Right after he lost control of his company (FB clone) when he refused to shut down opposition related groups on it. He openly talked about pressure from FSB etc. Telegram is not run out of Russia and Durov does not live in Russia. So if you don't mind loosing all your russian assets and living in exile you sure can speak out :)
  - ryanlol 9y ago
    >Telegram is not run out of Russia and Durov does not live in Russia FWIW this is bullshit, telegram office in St. Petersburg is literally one floor below the VK office and Durov is regularly present there. The whole exile thing is a charade, they’ve gone as far as assaulting people to try to keep it up https://m.lenta.ru/news/2017/03/20/durov/ https://m.lenta.ru/news/2017/03/20/durov/

RobertoG 9y ago

You can say the same about every country. That's the nature of networks of power. Or in other words, when you operate a business of considerable size you start being part of the inner circle.

ajross 9y ago
> You can say the same about every country No, you can't, except in some abstract sense that loses all meaning. In the west, it's routine to find wealthy and powerful members of the establishment pursue goals and policies that are directly opposed to the government with both success and failure. And of course these governments change hands relatively commonly. In Russia, there are no wealthy or powerful people pursuing anything but Putin's agenda. All those who tried have been removed, via various methods ranging from banal to horrifying. Now I'm sure there are nuts on the internet who will try to claim that the political divisions of the west are "really" just a front for a kleptrocrat cabal or whatever. But in the real world we have one country arresting its enemies and a bunch that don't, and that distinction matters.
- seppin 9y ago
  Amazing that people don't see this still. Kaspersky insists that his company has an exception, and it "doesn't work like that", but it's hard to believe. And if you're part of the US IC, it'd be malpractice to believe him.
  - collectively 9y ago
    The nature of the relationship is unknown. Even if Kaspersky is bought by Putin in some way, it’s not clear what the terms and expectations are. It does seem unlikely that the commercial offering is straight up spyware for putin—why would anyone buy it? So it’s a little silly to talk about the relationship as if its existence is meaningful when the degree of ownership is the real question.
    - ajross 9y ago