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Exactly this. I get chills reading that some founders were eating ramen for a year. Imagine how much extra work could have a fed brain complete. Some may say

Exactly this. I get chills reading that some founders were eating ramen for a year. Imagine how much extra work could have a fed brain complete. Some may say I am not understanding the startup life, however without founder's health and sanity startups rarely succeed, because just like you said they're distracted with things they should not be worrying about like living frugally. On the other hand I would never jeopardize my health, family and property for a startup. Maybe that will cost me 10 million in startup funds from a "get rich die trying" mentality loving VC, but at the end of the day, too many startups have failed because they scaled too soon and because someone made a decision when they lacked glucose. I'd much rather have my physical and mental health and future success, than a short term money to spend and an uncertain life ahead. Now, I am not saying that I would not work extra, but there has to be a balance otherwise you'll burn out.

cyberpunk0 9y ago
If you don't want to jeopardize your health don't join the rat race to begin with. Or be rich and do little work like most founders
- Jakawao 9y ago
  >be rich and do little work like most founders I trust you had an experience that lead you to think this way, but you clearly don't know "most founders."
karmelapple 9y ago
I attribute some of my own startup’s success to the attitude of my cofounders and I to live a sensible schedule which gave time for loved ones and friends. This was helped by two of my cofounders having a spouse, and one cofounder having children. Priorities and behavior are different for a single person than someone in a relationship. Being in a relationship or having kids is not the only route to having that sensibility in life. I was single even when my cofounders were not, yet I had a pretty sensible life, in spite of dating and trying to find a partner for life while also starting to build a company. I think the influence of my other cofounders, who had dreams and aspirations outside of just the company, was a strong tempering force to me or anyone else in the company getting an unhealthy tunnel vision.
- justinjlynn 9y ago
  This certainly exposes a moral hazard for their investors who have an incentive to maximise output for as long as an exit takes. After that, I doubt they care that much aside from having a "successful serial entrepreneur" with a reputation to further exploit.
  - sambe 9y ago
    They have an incentive to maximise the expected value of an exit. The parents are suggesting that maximising output reduces probability of an any exit, I believe.
- randomsearch 9y ago
  Please could you expand on what sort of balance you chose? I’m very interested to hear what worked for you.
  - karmelapple 9y ago
    A few goals we've kept clear: * Trying to ensure all of our employees have a 40 hour week (or as close to it as possible). * Making sure the cofounders have time - whether we're single or not - to spend time with friends and loved ones. That probably translates to simply not guilting each other into working too much - it's okay (and encouraged) to take a good weekend. And that's generally been the reality, too. Are there other balance-related questions you have, or does that kind of answer it?
ajross 9y ago
> I get chills reading that some founders were eating ramen for a year. I get sad when I realize that the HN community doesn't remember "ramen profitable". Not making a point about ramen, obviously (except to say you can eat well and very healthy on a budget that makes even ramen "expensive"). Just that modern "starups" have an expectation of funding that would have seemed ridiculous on this site a decade ago.
- sidlls 9y ago
  "Ramen profitable" means something other than "revenue is greater than expenses by enough to live on ramen?"
  - jasode 9y ago
    ajross was responding to parent commenter bkovacev's literal interpretation of "ramen" as eating actual ramen and therefore depriving the brain of critical nutrients. The "ramen" is just a rhetorical placeholder for "low expenses" and not about an actual diet. For example, Paul Graham is not advising entrepreneurs to literally eat ramen noodles: http://www.paulgraham.com/ramenprofitable.html http://www.paulgraham.com/ramenprofitable.html
dmurray 9y ago
Eating enough food for your physical needs is not normally a problem. You can get your 2000 calories, bit of protein and all the vitamins you require for $3/day anywhere in the USA and there aren't many startup founders who literally starve. Mental health and happiness is a real issue, though. I'd be miserable eating the bland meal every day and that does cause some people to underperform their potential. On the other hand, it motivates other people to work harder to escape their situation.
mschuetz 9y ago
> I get chills reading that some founders were eating ramen for a year. I could eat Ramen every day but good restaurant Ramen is quite expensive.

cyberpunk0 9y ago

If you don't want to jeopardize your health don't join the rat race to begin with. Or be rich and do little work like most founders

Jakawao 9y ago
>be rich and do little work like most founders I trust you had an experience that lead you to think this way, but you clearly don't know "most founders."

karmelapple 9y ago

I attribute some of my own startup’s success to the attitude of my cofounders and I to live a sensible schedule which gave time for loved ones and friends. This was helped by two of my cofounders having a spouse, and one cofounder having children. Priorities and behavior are different for a single person than someone in a relationship. Being in a relationship or having kids is not the only route to having that sensibility in life. I was single even when my cofounders were not, yet I had a pretty sensible life, in spite of dating and trying to find a partner for life while also starting to build a company. I think the influence of my other cofounders, who had dreams and aspirations outside of just the company, was a strong tempering force to me or anyone else in the company getting an unhealthy tunnel vision.

justinjlynn 9y ago
This certainly exposes a moral hazard for their investors who have an incentive to maximise output for as long as an exit takes. After that, I doubt they care that much aside from having a "successful serial entrepreneur" with a reputation to further exploit.
- sambe 9y ago
  They have an incentive to maximise the expected value of an exit. The parents are suggesting that maximising output reduces probability of an any exit, I believe.
randomsearch 9y ago
Please could you expand on what sort of balance you chose? I’m very interested to hear what worked for you.
- karmelapple 9y ago
  A few goals we've kept clear: * Trying to ensure all of our employees have a 40 hour week (or as close to it as possible). * Making sure the cofounders have time - whether we're single or not - to spend time with friends and loved ones. That probably translates to simply not guilting each other into working too much - it's okay (and encouraged) to take a good weekend. And that's generally been the reality, too. Are there other balance-related questions you have, or does that kind of answer it?

ajross 9y ago

> I get chills reading that some founders were eating ramen for a year. I get sad when I realize that the HN community doesn't remember "ramen profitable". Not making a point about ramen, obviously (except to say you can eat well and very healthy on a budget that makes even ramen "expensive"). Just that modern "starups" have an expectation of funding that would have seemed ridiculous on this site a decade ago.

sidlls 9y ago
"Ramen profitable" means something other than "revenue is greater than expenses by enough to live on ramen?"
- jasode 9y ago
  ajross was responding to parent commenter bkovacev's literal interpretation of "ramen" as eating actual ramen and therefore depriving the brain of critical nutrients. The "ramen" is just a rhetorical placeholder for "low expenses" and not about an actual diet. For example, Paul Graham is not advising entrepreneurs to literally eat ramen noodles: http://www.paulgraham.com/ramenprofitable.html http://www.paulgraham.com/ramenprofitable.html

dmurray 9y ago

Eating enough food for your physical needs is not normally a problem. You can get your 2000 calories, bit of protein and all the vitamins you require for $3/day anywhere in the USA and there aren't many startup founders who literally starve. Mental health and happiness is a real issue, though. I'd be miserable eating the bland meal every day and that does cause some people to underperform their potential. On the other hand, it motivates other people to work harder to escape their situation.

mschuetz 9y ago

> I get chills reading that some founders were eating ramen for a year. I could eat Ramen every day but good restaurant Ramen is quite expensive.