4 ms·

We are reading the same article and getting completely different readings. Both those links were written by professors in this exact area. One states the Aristo

by iorrus 9y ago

We are reading the same article and getting completely different readings. Both those links were written by professors in this exact area. One states the Aristotle was in wide circulation, the other states that photius likely wrote textbooks for use in schools on aristotle so he was hardly neglected. Did you read about Arethas? We even have knowledge of Photius's textbook on Aristotle's topics. There were no new commentaries on Aristotle for a long time but that doesn't mean he was forgotten. Notice also throughout all these links that it is unanimous that after Islamic invasion learning in general went into quick and rapid decline. Good article: http://www.encyclopedia.com/humanities/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/byzantine-philosophy http://www.encyclopedia.com/humanities/encyclopedias-almanac...

boomboomsubban 9y ago
Being a professor in that area doesn't mean your word is absolute truth, this topic has been full of bias from the beginning with Christians reluctant to admit Islamic influence. Adding in that "learning in general went in to decline," an absurd fantasy that none of your sources back up, means that's probably the basis for this disagreement. So Photius wrote something on "Topics," we're now at 1/3rd of Aristotle's principle collection on Logic. Nothing about his further philosophical ideas.
- iorrus 9y ago
  Did you read the last link I cited? It mentions many Byzantine philosophers and their links to Aristotle. There is no serious suggestion that Aristotle ever died out in Byzantium or that foreign intervention was required to rediscover him. Knowledge of Aristotle is assumed in most of the primary sources from that time. You must remember that all the original church fathers quoted and discussed Aristotle, so the Byzantine theology made frequent reference to him. He was part of the religious canon. Aristotle worship was wrong anyway, the Byzantines and Avicenna were right to concentrate on Plato and not the inferior Aristotle. Most of which was incorporated into early Christian theology, Aristotle was rightly marginalised but that doesn't mean he was forgotten.
  - boomboomsubban 9y ago
    Your new article doesn't list anything new in the period discussed, a few people writing about his logic for hundreds of years. Going back to your first source offered, "It deserves to be noted that before the 12th century, the whole Byzantine output of Aristotelian commentaries dealt exclusively with the works on logic." Your opinion on what the better philosophy is does not matter. It's funny to see you take a neoplatonic view and try to argue that they welcomed competing ideas.
    - iorrus 9y ago
      Yes they produced no new commentaries... Byzantiums were extremely conservative, they disdained innovation, so why would they write new commentaries where there were already several hundred years worth of commentaries? We have also lost a lot of Byzantium primary sources but it is obvious from reading the remaining primary sources that knowledge of Aristotle was assumed. It is not stated anywhere that Aristotle was "forgotten", in all the primary documents including Neoplatonic Aristotle is frequently mentioned. Where do you get the idea that Byzantium and Islam were in philosophic discourse? Also see this article: https://books.google.com/books?id=uU8Sgwge6NsC&pg=PA15&lpg=P.. https://books.google.com/books?id=uU8Sgwge6NsC&pg=PA15&lpg=P....
      - boomboomsubban 9y ago
        Your first post mentioned the Bibliotheca, a review of many books written during thi period about things that already had commentaries. Aristotle was neglected for centuries. What primary sources are you using? As none of the plethora you keep bringing up are primary. And why would something's state it had forgotten Aristotle? If you don't value something, it's just largely ignored. Many of the philosophers brought up in this discussion recorded contact with the Abbasid Caliphate in some manner. They shared a border and the Mediterranean, it would be hard not to be in contact. That one says the same as the rest.
        iorrus 9y ago
        have you read Byzantine history? They were sworn enemies of Islam throughout this entire period not discussing the nuances of philosophy. I can keep citing articles claiming Aristotle was not forgotten but it seems pointless at this stage. Many of the early church fathers mention Aristotle. Aristotle was considered a minor philosopher throughout this time but his work was still available. Another article for you: https://books.google.ie/books?id=Hkf6n9oKFmYC&pg=PA159&lpg=PA159&dq=organon+byzantium&source=bl&ots=Cka5QjLhg7&sig=exm_U33pIz_XTEvTxwR869kxKzw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiw1PTitsvXAhVFBcAKHX4RA5UQ6AEIMDAB#v=onepage&q=organon%20byzantium&f=false https://books.google.ie/books?id=Hkf6n9oKFmYC&pg=PA159&lpg=P...

by iorrus 9y ago

boomboomsubban 9y ago

Being a professor in that area doesn't mean your word is absolute truth, this topic has been full of bias from the beginning with Christians reluctant to admit Islamic influence. Adding in that "learning in general went in to decline," an absurd fantasy that none of your sources back up, means that's probably the basis for this disagreement. So Photius wrote something on "Topics," we're now at 1/3rd of Aristotle's principle collection on Logic. Nothing about his further philosophical ideas.

iorrus 9y ago
Did you read the last link I cited? It mentions many Byzantine philosophers and their links to Aristotle. There is no serious suggestion that Aristotle ever died out in Byzantium or that foreign intervention was required to rediscover him. Knowledge of Aristotle is assumed in most of the primary sources from that time. You must remember that all the original church fathers quoted and discussed Aristotle, so the Byzantine theology made frequent reference to him. He was part of the religious canon. Aristotle worship was wrong anyway, the Byzantines and Avicenna were right to concentrate on Plato and not the inferior Aristotle. Most of which was incorporated into early Christian theology, Aristotle was rightly marginalised but that doesn't mean he was forgotten.
- boomboomsubban 9y ago
  Your new article doesn't list anything new in the period discussed, a few people writing about his logic for hundreds of years. Going back to your first source offered, "It deserves to be noted that before the 12th century, the whole Byzantine output of Aristotelian commentaries dealt exclusively with the works on logic." Your opinion on what the better philosophy is does not matter. It's funny to see you take a neoplatonic view and try to argue that they welcomed competing ideas.
  - iorrus 9y ago
    Yes they produced no new commentaries... Byzantiums were extremely conservative, they disdained innovation, so why would they write new commentaries where there were already several hundred years worth of commentaries? We have also lost a lot of Byzantium primary sources but it is obvious from reading the remaining primary sources that knowledge of Aristotle was assumed. It is not stated anywhere that Aristotle was "forgotten", in all the primary documents including Neoplatonic Aristotle is frequently mentioned. Where do you get the idea that Byzantium and Islam were in philosophic discourse? Also see this article: https://books.google.com/books?id=uU8Sgwge6NsC&pg=PA15&lpg=P.. https://books.google.com/books?id=uU8Sgwge6NsC&pg=PA15&lpg=P....
    - boomboomsubban 9y ago
      Your first post mentioned the Bibliotheca, a review of many books written during thi period about things that already had commentaries. Aristotle was neglected for centuries. What primary sources are you using? As none of the plethora you keep bringing up are primary. And why would something's state it had forgotten Aristotle? If you don't value something, it's just largely ignored. Many of the philosophers brought up in this discussion recorded contact with the Abbasid Caliphate in some manner. They shared a border and the Mediterranean, it would be hard not to be in contact. That one says the same as the rest.
      - iorrus 9y ago
        have you read Byzantine history? They were sworn enemies of Islam throughout this entire period not discussing the nuances of philosophy. I can keep citing articles claiming Aristotle was not forgotten but it seems pointless at this stage. Many of the early church fathers mention Aristotle. Aristotle was considered a minor philosopher throughout this time but his work was still available. Another article for you: https://books.google.ie/books?id=Hkf6n9oKFmYC&pg=PA159&lpg=PA159&dq=organon+byzantium&source=bl&ots=Cka5QjLhg7&sig=exm_U33pIz_XTEvTxwR869kxKzw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiw1PTitsvXAhVFBcAKHX4RA5UQ6AEIMDAB#v=onepage&q=organon%20byzantium&f=false https://books.google.ie/books?id=Hkf6n9oKFmYC&pg=PA159&lpg=P...