4 ms·

I feel that as certain cities become more dense, public space is either hard to find or not that well designed (i.e. too loud, dirty, not comfortable). It would

by colmvp 9y ago

I feel that as certain cities become more dense, public space is either hard to find or not that well designed (i.e. too loud, dirty, not comfortable). It wouldn't surprise me in the least if cafes like Starbucks have grown in popularity partially because of that issue, as at least in my city, they have grown rapidly and practically every location is busy. I guess we've just copied the French w.r.t. third spaces.

colechristensen 9y ago
Could you elaborate more on your general point or third spaces in particular?
- techsupporter 9y ago
  The "third place" is a social space that is distinct from the home and the office. Cafes, bookstores, malls, and restaurants are often these kinds of places because they're distinct from house and work and are easy places to gather and they offer various amenities. (Why are parks less commonly included? Two reasons: One is that parks are often used for other, more active, activities and usually during the day while third places are more seen as an evening and leisurely activity. Second is, especially in more urban cities, that parks are seen as "dirty" or "unseemly" because homeless or vagrant populations congregate there.)
  - b0rsuk 9y ago
    Vagrants are a real problem, and I think democratic/liberal states have no real solution for them. In the past, in authoritarian, totalitarian states or under tyranny, vagrancy was punishable by law.
    - kwhitefoot 9y ago
      Under the Vagrancy Act of 1824 it still is punishable in the UK.
  - juliendorra 9y ago
    About parks and their status as third places: in Paris (and I'd say a lot of European cities) they are used as an extension of home/friend and family activities. Birthday parties, drinks with friends, eating together. So a public spaces for private group activities. You can also spot people working there, or doing physical training, classes of small children drawing… really diverses activities. I also noticed that museum or libraries are more often included as third places than parks are (even when parks in paris got free wifi at the same time as libraries). Indeed, gyms and swimming pools will not be seen as third spaces, so parks might be conceptually somewhere in between "body hygiene spaces" (as inherited from the early 20th vision) and intellectual third spaces (idem, inherited from Vienna intellectual life early 20th). As an example Les Buttes Chaumont in Paris is clearly modeled as a very early theme park, with fake lake, fake caves… placing it at birth in the entertainment space category, generally not considered third places. Edit: the notion of "promenade" (just walking together) is central in the creation of early public parks in Paris. I think play and picnic are more recent additions, but they combine in the concepts that drive most of public park design.

by colmvp 9y ago

colechristensen 9y ago

Could you elaborate more on your general point or third spaces in particular?

techsupporter 9y ago
The "third place" is a social space that is distinct from the home and the office. Cafes, bookstores, malls, and restaurants are often these kinds of places because they're distinct from house and work and are easy places to gather and they offer various amenities. (Why are parks less commonly included? Two reasons: One is that parks are often used for other, more active, activities and usually during the day while third places are more seen as an evening and leisurely activity. Second is, especially in more urban cities, that parks are seen as "dirty" or "unseemly" because homeless or vagrant populations congregate there.)
- b0rsuk 9y ago
  Vagrants are a real problem, and I think democratic/liberal states have no real solution for them. In the past, in authoritarian, totalitarian states or under tyranny, vagrancy was punishable by law.
  - kwhitefoot 9y ago
    Under the Vagrancy Act of 1824 it still is punishable in the UK.
- juliendorra 9y ago
  About parks and their status as third places: in Paris (and I'd say a lot of European cities) they are used as an extension of home/friend and family activities. Birthday parties, drinks with friends, eating together. So a public spaces for private group activities. You can also spot people working there, or doing physical training, classes of small children drawing… really diverses activities. I also noticed that museum or libraries are more often included as third places than parks are (even when parks in paris got free wifi at the same time as libraries). Indeed, gyms and swimming pools will not be seen as third spaces, so parks might be conceptually somewhere in between "body hygiene spaces" (as inherited from the early 20th vision) and intellectual third spaces (idem, inherited from Vienna intellectual life early 20th). As an example Les Buttes Chaumont in Paris is clearly modeled as a very early theme park, with fake lake, fake caves… placing it at birth in the entertainment space category, generally not considered third places. Edit: the notion of "promenade" (just walking together) is central in the creation of early public parks in Paris. I think play and picnic are more recent additions, but they combine in the concepts that drive most of public park design.