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Why would you say "The restriction is undoubtedly effective at preventing even more crap from entering the App Store". Is there any evidence that Apple's restr

Why would you say "The restriction is undoubtedly effective at preventing even more crap from entering the App Store". Is there any evidence that Apple's restriction on languages is preventing more crap apps? Keep in mind this isn't about Flash (or at least, not just about Flash). It means iPhone developers can't use any other languages (Lua, JavaScript, Python, etc), interpreted or compiled. You've got to have your head shoved pretty far up Steve Job's reality distortion field to claim that this restriction anything other than an anticompetitive move to "lock" developers into the platform.

astrange 16y ago
> Lua, JavaScript I'm told several of the top 10 games on the store use Lua (with permission, presumably). And you're specifically allowed to use JavaScript since it comes with the system.
- teamonkey 16y ago
  The language rule was relaxed so you could use embedded languages so long as you couldn't expose them to the end user. Javascript must be executed using Mobile Safari.
- Zev 16y ago
  And you're specifically allowed to use JavaScript since it comes with the system. Yes and no. In native applications, you can use JS, however its very limited; 10MB ram max, combined with 10s execution time before your code gets killed.
dieterrams 16y ago
> Why would you say "The restriction is undoubtedly effective at preventing even more crap from entering the App Store". Is there any evidence that Apple's restriction on languages is preventing more crap apps? Sturgeon's Law puts the burden of proof on anybody who doesn't think it would prevent more crap apps. (Crapps?) And practically speaking, I can't imagine allowing Flash-to-iOS apps not resulting in a deluge of more crap. The restriction also implicitly weeds out programmers who can't handle a C language requiring manual memory management. That doesn't mean you won't have crap programmers, but it probably boosts the average skill of iOS app programmers by a bit. The downside to the restriction, obviously, is that it prevents not-crap apps from making it to the App Store as well. This seems to be your real issue, but preventing not-crap apps does not imply not preventing crap apps. > Keep in mind this isn't about Flash (or at least, not just about Flash). It means iPhone developers can't use any other languages (Lua, JavaScript, Python, etc), interpreted or compiled. Not true. You've always been able to use JavaScript, and you can use pretty much any other language provided you get approval from Apple and don't use it to build the bulk of your app. Plenty of game devs are using other languages for scripting or emulation. > You've got to have your head shoved pretty far up Steve Job's reality distortion field to claim that this restriction anything other than an anticompetitive move to "lock" developers into the platform. You'd have to be pretty uncharitable to think there couldn't be any other valid reasons. For someone who supposedly has his head up Steve Jobs' reality distortion field, I think developer lock-in is a plausible motive. But nobody except Jobs, Forstall, etc. has any ability to claim that it's the only motive, or even the primary one.
- theBobMcCormick 16y ago
  Sounds like an argument from ignorance. Nobody has proven the language restrictions don't decrease the number of crap apps, there for it's proven they do? WTF. I'm not the one making the stupid claim (that the language restrictions reduce crap apps). The burden of proof lies with the claimant in this case.
- chc 16y ago
  Not true. You've always been able to use JavaScript, and you can use pretty much any other language provided you get approval from Apple and don't use it to build the bulk of your app. So I can use any language I want as long as I hardly use it at all and get some vague "approval" for my incredibly limited use. Big whoop. That's pretty much the same as not being allowed to use any other language. Much closer to banned than allowed.

astrange 16y ago

> Lua, JavaScript I'm told several of the top 10 games on the store use Lua (with permission, presumably). And you're specifically allowed to use JavaScript since it comes with the system.

teamonkey 16y ago
The language rule was relaxed so you could use embedded languages so long as you couldn't expose them to the end user. Javascript must be executed using Mobile Safari.
Zev 16y ago
And you're specifically allowed to use JavaScript since it comes with the system. Yes and no. In native applications, you can use JS, however its very limited; 10MB ram max, combined with 10s execution time before your code gets killed.

dieterrams 16y ago

> Why would you say "The restriction is undoubtedly effective at preventing even more crap from entering the App Store". Is there any evidence that Apple's restriction on languages is preventing more crap apps? Sturgeon's Law puts the burden of proof on anybody who doesn't think it would prevent more crap apps. (Crapps?) And practically speaking, I can't imagine allowing Flash-to-iOS apps not resulting in a deluge of more crap. The restriction also implicitly weeds out programmers who can't handle a C language requiring manual memory management. That doesn't mean you won't have crap programmers, but it probably boosts the average skill of iOS app programmers by a bit. The downside to the restriction, obviously, is that it prevents not-crap apps from making it to the App Store as well. This seems to be your real issue, but preventing not-crap apps does not imply not preventing crap apps. > Keep in mind this isn't about Flash (or at least, not just about Flash). It means iPhone developers can't use any other languages (Lua, JavaScript, Python, etc), interpreted or compiled. Not true. You've always been able to use JavaScript, and you can use pretty much any other language provided you get approval from Apple and don't use it to build the bulk of your app. Plenty of game devs are using other languages for scripting or emulation. > You've got to have your head shoved pretty far up Steve Job's reality distortion field to claim that this restriction anything other than an anticompetitive move to "lock" developers into the platform. You'd have to be pretty uncharitable to think there couldn't be any other valid reasons. For someone who supposedly has his head up Steve Jobs' reality distortion field, I think developer lock-in is a plausible motive. But nobody except Jobs, Forstall, etc. has any ability to claim that it's the only motive, or even the primary one.

theBobMcCormick 16y ago
Sounds like an argument from ignorance. Nobody has proven the language restrictions don't decrease the number of crap apps, there for it's proven they do? WTF. I'm not the one making the stupid claim (that the language restrictions reduce crap apps). The burden of proof lies with the claimant in this case.
chc 16y ago
Not true. You've always been able to use JavaScript, and you can use pretty much any other language provided you get approval from Apple and don't use it to build the bulk of your app. So I can use any language I want as long as I hardly use it at all and get some vague "approval" for my incredibly limited use. Big whoop. That's pretty much the same as not being allowed to use any other language. Much closer to banned than allowed.