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If we, the UK tax payers, gave you the eduction, ... WRONG. Will this meme ever die ? Rich have always been paying extreme majority of the tax revenue. For ex

If we, the UK tax payers, gave you the eduction, ... WRONG. Will this meme ever die ? Rich have always been paying extreme majority of the tax revenue. For example according to this recently released official report [1] in regards to the tax reform, In 2019 people earning >=$100k will make up 23.4% of number of tax _returns filed_ and contribute to 78.6% of all individual income tax revenue. So if top 23.4% is ok with tax avoidence then the others really dont have much say. If the bottom 76.6% want more whatever they need to figure out a payment plan on their own. [1] https://www.jct.gov/publications.html?func=startdown&id=5036 https://www.jct.gov/publications.html?func=startdown&id=5036

mattmanser 9y ago
Meme? Say you're rich today. You had the opportunity when you were 18 and an adult to move country and live somewhere with a regressive tax regime. You didn't, because those countries suck, don't start moaning about it now you're earning good money. Now you're rich and you're cheating the system because you don't like paying your fair share. Your fair share is a percentage. Without the percentage based tax system we can't afford to be a great country for businesses. You want to move to a regressive tax regime because you've got all the benefits already, but can't because the electorate don't agree so you're now "avoiding" tax. Or maybe even Daddy/Mummy made all the money and you want a free ride. That's simply you trying to have your cake and eat it. You've already benefited from a progressive tax regime where the rich pay more because they can afford to. Previous generations paid for your opportunity to make it big. Paid for gangsters not to turn up and take over your business. Paid for no corrupt politician throwing you in jail and stealing your business. Paid for the roads and postal system and educating your employees and giving you the courts to pursue late payers. It paid for the opportunity you or your Daddy/Mummy had. But somehow we should change the rules for you? But, on average, within 2 or 3 generations your family will be middle class again. They won't agree with your temporary stance. Your own descendants will, in all probability, be against your stance. It's not that it's "WRONG", it's that you want the best of both worlds, a fantastic country protecting you and nurturing you to do business in, and paying a small amount of taxes.
- charlesdm 9y ago
  Sorry, but this is bullshit. You're only cheating the system if you don't pay what the law says you own. If you find a loophole, you will pay less, fine (and congrats) -- there are plenty. Now fix it so the next guy can't use it. Blame the politicians for making low quality laws. Seriously, the legislative work of so many politicians is shoddy at best, it is ridiculous. Tax avoidance requires nothing more than creative thinking and an understanding of the law. Any decent engineer here on HN could easily understand and find ways to avoid the law legally, and pay less taxes (for themselves or for clients), if that is what what they want to do with their lives. Tax law is surprisingly similar to software engineering. It might make me an asshole, but I would happily move to a low tax country and not pay any tax when I have the opportunity to book a massive gain. Hello Monaco? And that is how many people feel, because once you're past a certain point, you just don't get sufficient value back from the system. As an example: if I make €1m, I would happily give back 100-200k to society. What I am unwilling to do however, is part with €400 or 500k. So one will try to find a way to bring down that tax bill. Life would be much better if all taxes would be reasonable -- as someone with wealthy friends, tax avoidance is a waste of effort and time, but necessary. You act as if it's a divine right to be able to live in country X. It's not. Wealthy people will frequently and happily move if it makes sense to do so. And many developed countries will give them tax incentives to move! Find other ways to incentivize them to stay in a specific country. Taxes aren't everything, but push someone past a certain point, and they will look for alternatives.
TheCoelacanth 9y ago
Will this meme ever die? Your data only looks at federal income tax. The is the most significant tax for high earners and it is indeed highly progressive (i.e. high earners pay a disproportionately higher percentage of their income). However lower income people get hit harder by virtually all other taxes. For instance, FICA is regressive because it is flat up to roughly a 95th percentile income and the caps out so anyone making above a 95th percentile income will be paying a lower rate than anyone who makes less than that. State and local taxes also tend to be highly regressive as well because they rely heavily on sales, property and excise taxes. When you take all taxes into account, it is actually shocking close to a flat tax of 29.5% for the top 40% of earners. The top 1% pays about 0.5% percentage points less, the rest of the top 10% pays about 1 percentage points more, and the 60-80 percenters pay about 1 percentage point less. Even for the bottom 60 percent, it's not drastically lower they pay from 17.4%-25.3% [1]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/09/19/heres-why-the-47-percent-argument-is-an-abuse-of-tax-data/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/09/19/heres...

mattmanser 9y ago

Meme? Say you're rich today. You had the opportunity when you were 18 and an adult to move country and live somewhere with a regressive tax regime. You didn't, because those countries suck, don't start moaning about it now you're earning good money. Now you're rich and you're cheating the system because you don't like paying your fair share. Your fair share is a percentage. Without the percentage based tax system we can't afford to be a great country for businesses. You want to move to a regressive tax regime because you've got all the benefits already, but can't because the electorate don't agree so you're now "avoiding" tax. Or maybe even Daddy/Mummy made all the money and you want a free ride. That's simply you trying to have your cake and eat it. You've already benefited from a progressive tax regime where the rich pay more because they can afford to. Previous generations paid for your opportunity to make it big. Paid for gangsters not to turn up and take over your business. Paid for no corrupt politician throwing you in jail and stealing your business. Paid for the roads and postal system and educating your employees and giving you the courts to pursue late payers. It paid for the opportunity you or your Daddy/Mummy had. But somehow we should change the rules for you? But, on average, within 2 or 3 generations your family will be middle class again. They won't agree with your temporary stance. Your own descendants will, in all probability, be against your stance. It's not that it's "WRONG", it's that you want the best of both worlds, a fantastic country protecting you and nurturing you to do business in, and paying a small amount of taxes.

charlesdm 9y ago
Sorry, but this is bullshit. You're only cheating the system if you don't pay what the law says you own. If you find a loophole, you will pay less, fine (and congrats) -- there are plenty. Now fix it so the next guy can't use it. Blame the politicians for making low quality laws. Seriously, the legislative work of so many politicians is shoddy at best, it is ridiculous. Tax avoidance requires nothing more than creative thinking and an understanding of the law. Any decent engineer here on HN could easily understand and find ways to avoid the law legally, and pay less taxes (for themselves or for clients), if that is what what they want to do with their lives. Tax law is surprisingly similar to software engineering. It might make me an asshole, but I would happily move to a low tax country and not pay any tax when I have the opportunity to book a massive gain. Hello Monaco? And that is how many people feel, because once you're past a certain point, you just don't get sufficient value back from the system. As an example: if I make €1m, I would happily give back 100-200k to society. What I am unwilling to do however, is part with €400 or 500k. So one will try to find a way to bring down that tax bill. Life would be much better if all taxes would be reasonable -- as someone with wealthy friends, tax avoidance is a waste of effort and time, but necessary. You act as if it's a divine right to be able to live in country X. It's not. Wealthy people will frequently and happily move if it makes sense to do so. And many developed countries will give them tax incentives to move! Find other ways to incentivize them to stay in a specific country. Taxes aren't everything, but push someone past a certain point, and they will look for alternatives.

TheCoelacanth 9y ago

Will this meme ever die? Your data only looks at federal income tax. The is the most significant tax for high earners and it is indeed highly progressive (i.e. high earners pay a disproportionately higher percentage of their income). However lower income people get hit harder by virtually all other taxes. For instance, FICA is regressive because it is flat up to roughly a 95th percentile income and the caps out so anyone making above a 95th percentile income will be paying a lower rate than anyone who makes less than that. State and local taxes also tend to be highly regressive as well because they rely heavily on sales, property and excise taxes. When you take all taxes into account, it is actually shocking close to a flat tax of 29.5% for the top 40% of earners. The top 1% pays about 0.5% percentage points less, the rest of the top 10% pays about 1 percentage points more, and the 60-80 percenters pay about 1 percentage point less. Even for the bottom 60 percent, it's not drastically lower they pay from 17.4%-25.3% [1]. [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/09/19/heres-why-the-47-percent-argument-is-an-abuse-of-tax-data/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/09/19/heres...