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You mean we've known about Orcas exploiting tonic immobility for years, right? I can't think of any analytical technique that would allow us to know when Orcas

You mean we've known about Orcas exploiting tonic immobility for years, right? I can't think of any analytical technique that would allow us to know when Orcas started exhibiting this behavior. As our methods and wealth have allowed us to observe more behavior, we have recorded more behavior. Humans have been observing Orcas for a tiny sliver of their existence. Orcas discovering a major new behavior just when we happen to have the means of observing them seems breathtakingly unlikely.

SEJeff 9y ago
I meant it is a great article, but isn't really "news". I became an amateur Orca enthusiast maybe 4-5 years ago after seeing "LA Pod" in Marina Del Rey / Playa Vista outside of Los Angeles. Youtube has hours and hours of footage of how each pod hunts differently. The most interesting ones actually beach themselves on purpose to snag a meal right off the shore before carefully pushing themselves back into the water.
- PhasmaFelis 9y ago
  Yeah, I've seen video of an orca lunging onto a beach after some penguins, missing, then just sitting there sunning itself for a minute before humping back into the water like a seal. Really didn't expect that from a whale.
  - SEJeff 9y ago
    The matriarch whistles and the pod causes waves to knock seals off of the ice. The hungriest of the pod waits on the other side and grabs them. Then then share the food with each other. This level of coordination is pretty much unheard of in nature. Even dogs aren't this intelligent. Their level of intelligence is somewhat terrifying if you think about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1VEwsI4SlY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1VEwsI4SlY And better (but long): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRWl77tK7Bg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRWl77tK7Bg
    - DoubleCribble 9y ago
      Ever hear about the Eden pod? Notable because they recruited HUMANS to do the big prey killing for them.[0] [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whales_of_Eden,_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whales_of_Eden,_Austral...
      - SEJeff 9y ago
        That's a new one. Incredible.
      - tomjen3 9y ago
        Reading that I am not sure who recruited whom, but humans can definitely be trained.
      - cptaj 9y ago
        This is by far the most incredible orca story I've read. There can be little doubt after this that they're sentient.
  - timlyo 9y ago
    Aren't they a species of Dolphin rather than an actual Whale? I think the name comes from a mis-translation and should be whale killer. I'll have a look for a source if I can later.
nikofeyn 9y ago
> Orcas discovering a major new behavior just when we happen to have the means of observing them seems breathtakingly unlikely. i wouldn't be so sure of that. of course just because we witness doing them something for the first time doesn't mean that is their first time doing that thing, but the mammal-eating orcas are rather adaptable animals are obviously extremely intelligent. due to receding ice barriers, orcas are now eating beluga whales, stealing from polar bears, which is a previously unknown prey for them. also, orcas were well known to be aiding fisherman and whalers in australia with documented cases of herding whales into a bay. even today, fisherman have been noted as witnessing increasingly new behavior in orcas tracking down fishing boats to steal their catches. whales off the coast of south africa also eat great whites, and they also chase down dolphins, including massive feeding frenzies off the huge (like 1000+) dolphin herds there. it is not clear when this behavior started, but orcas do not typically eat dolphins. orcas also have other behavioral techniques that are very human-like. off the coast of canada, there are orcas who visit a specific shallow area to receive a massage off of the smooth pebbles there. so i would say it's breathtakingly unlikey that orcas are not learning new techniques all the time.
- Johnny555 9y ago
  But fishing boats are (relatively) new to their environment -- Orcas have coexisted with sharks for ~10 million years. It seems unlikely that they've just learned that behavior in the ~200 years we've been observing them scientifically
  - nikofeyn 9y ago
    i am not arguing about orcas eating sharks being new behavior. i was just pointing out that one of the most intelligent species on the planet learning major new behavior is not breathtakingly unlikely.
ajross 9y ago
> Humans have been observing Orcas for a tiny sliver of their existence. Obviously true. But in fact the dolphin family (of which orcas are the largest member) branched off of toothed whales only about 10M years ago, making them only a little bit older than hominids. We're both pretty recent arrivals.
- Johnny555 9y ago
  But in how many of those 10M years have humans been observing and recording Orca hunting behavior toward sharks? The first writing systems only date back ~5000 years.
  - ajross 9y ago
    I know. It was a segue to a point about cetacean evolution. Like great apes, they're pretty recent innovations.
taneq 9y ago
> Orcas discovering a major new behavior just when we happen to have the means of observing them seems breathtakingly unlikely. In all fairness, humans have discovered many major new behaviours in that same time period.
lithos 9y ago
It's way cooler than that when we first started noticing we also had biologists in the area with shark transponders. After the first attack the great white dove to massive depths, after a second attack a bunch ended up fleeing the area.

SEJeff 9y ago

I meant it is a great article, but isn't really "news". I became an amateur Orca enthusiast maybe 4-5 years ago after seeing "LA Pod" in Marina Del Rey / Playa Vista outside of Los Angeles. Youtube has hours and hours of footage of how each pod hunts differently. The most interesting ones actually beach themselves on purpose to snag a meal right off the shore before carefully pushing themselves back into the water.

PhasmaFelis 9y ago
Yeah, I've seen video of an orca lunging onto a beach after some penguins, missing, then just sitting there sunning itself for a minute before humping back into the water like a seal. Really didn't expect that from a whale.
- SEJeff 9y ago
  The matriarch whistles and the pod causes waves to knock seals off of the ice. The hungriest of the pod waits on the other side and grabs them. Then then share the food with each other. This level of coordination is pretty much unheard of in nature. Even dogs aren't this intelligent. Their level of intelligence is somewhat terrifying if you think about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1VEwsI4SlY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1VEwsI4SlY And better (but long): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRWl77tK7Bg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRWl77tK7Bg
  - DoubleCribble 9y ago
    Ever hear about the Eden pod? Notable because they recruited HUMANS to do the big prey killing for them.[0] [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whales_of_Eden,_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whales_of_Eden,_Austral...
    - SEJeff 9y ago
      That's a new one. Incredible.
    - tomjen3 9y ago
      Reading that I am not sure who recruited whom, but humans can definitely be trained.
    - cptaj 9y ago
      This is by far the most incredible orca story I've read. There can be little doubt after this that they're sentient.
- timlyo 9y ago
  Aren't they a species of Dolphin rather than an actual Whale? I think the name comes from a mis-translation and should be whale killer. I'll have a look for a source if I can later.

nikofeyn 9y ago

> Orcas discovering a major new behavior just when we happen to have the means of observing them seems breathtakingly unlikely. i wouldn't be so sure of that. of course just because we witness doing them something for the first time doesn't mean that is their first time doing that thing, but the mammal-eating orcas are rather adaptable animals are obviously extremely intelligent. due to receding ice barriers, orcas are now eating beluga whales, stealing from polar bears, which is a previously unknown prey for them. also, orcas were well known to be aiding fisherman and whalers in australia with documented cases of herding whales into a bay. even today, fisherman have been noted as witnessing increasingly new behavior in orcas tracking down fishing boats to steal their catches. whales off the coast of south africa also eat great whites, and they also chase down dolphins, including massive feeding frenzies off the huge (like 1000+) dolphin herds there. it is not clear when this behavior started, but orcas do not typically eat dolphins. orcas also have other behavioral techniques that are very human-like. off the coast of canada, there are orcas who visit a specific shallow area to receive a massage off of the smooth pebbles there. so i would say it's breathtakingly unlikey that orcas are not learning new techniques all the time.

Johnny555 9y ago
But fishing boats are (relatively) new to their environment -- Orcas have coexisted with sharks for ~10 million years. It seems unlikely that they've just learned that behavior in the ~200 years we've been observing them scientifically
- nikofeyn 9y ago
  i am not arguing about orcas eating sharks being new behavior. i was just pointing out that one of the most intelligent species on the planet learning major new behavior is not breathtakingly unlikely.

ajross 9y ago

> Humans have been observing Orcas for a tiny sliver of their existence. Obviously true. But in fact the dolphin family (of which orcas are the largest member) branched off of toothed whales only about 10M years ago, making them only a little bit older than hominids. We're both pretty recent arrivals.

Johnny555 9y ago
But in how many of those 10M years have humans been observing and recording Orca hunting behavior toward sharks? The first writing systems only date back ~5000 years.
- ajross 9y ago
  I know. It was a segue to a point about cetacean evolution. Like great apes, they're pretty recent innovations.

taneq 9y ago

> Orcas discovering a major new behavior just when we happen to have the means of observing them seems breathtakingly unlikely. In all fairness, humans have discovered many major new behaviours in that same time period.

lithos 9y ago

It's way cooler than that when we first started noticing we also had biologists in the area with shark transponders. After the first attack the great white dove to massive depths, after a second attack a bunch ended up fleeing the area.