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Java is absolutely rightly derided as the next COBOL because it is. It is the abstract concept of bureaucracy incarnated in code. But that means it will likel

Java is absolutely rightly derided as the next COBOL because it is. It is the abstract concept of bureaucracy incarnated in code. But that means it will likely follow COBOLs trajectory. A million legacy systems written in it will underpin the central core of a million businesses, being the (entirely unrecognized) most important component of the entire corporate structure bar none. And those systems will need care and feeding in their old age.

sreque 9y ago
http://matt.might.net/articles/best-programming-languages/ http://matt.might.net/articles/best-programming-languages/ "I don't think Java is all that bad, and I can enjoy well-done object-oriented programming." This is probably the most accurate opinion of Java the language I've seen, one that isn't tarnished by what anyone has seen in any proprietary codebase. I would rather program in Java the programming language than Javascript any day of the year, even if I dislike the vast majority of popular Java frameworks like Spring, Hibernate, etc.
- otakucode 9y ago
  Yes, I should have made it clear that Java the language is not inherently terrible. And the JVM itself is really quite nifty. It is unfortunately the infection of Java codebases (literally all of them I have seen with the sole exception of short Processing sketches made for graphical effects) with a mindset of design patterns as lego bricks used to build applications. Java did have a rough start though, there was clearly an edict at Sun to invent a nomenclature which deviated from any terminology commonly used by Microsoft which operated only to its detriment.
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 9y ago
    I think the JVM itself will be Java's saving grace - languages like Scala and even Clojure now are gaining huge popularity that not only leverage the JVM and existing ecosystem but have the ability to rapidly advance and abandon Java's warts. So it's not like COBOL in that regard. Because of the power of the JVM ecosystem I think even Java's glacial pace of adopting new features will be enough to keep up for many years or even decades to come.
le-mark 9y ago
Spotted the one who's never written cobol (or jcl).
- otakucode 9y ago
  You are correct that I have never written COBOL (or JCL for that matter), though I'm not sure why what I said would indicate such a thing. I have seen COBOL and working COBOL systems. They are absurdly verbose. That feels like a hyperbolic understatement, really. Everything is very structured, in the nature of micromanagement in organizations, formed in that way in order to intentionally forbid flexibility. Is the COBOL I have seen 'old fashioned' perhaps? It was well over a decade ago, closer to 2, since I've looked at any. Perhaps there is a 'lightweight' COBOL?

sreque 9y ago

http://matt.might.net/articles/best-programming-languages/ http://matt.might.net/articles/best-programming-languages/ "I don't think Java is all that bad, and I can enjoy well-done object-oriented programming." This is probably the most accurate opinion of Java the language I've seen, one that isn't tarnished by what anyone has seen in any proprietary codebase. I would rather program in Java the programming language than Javascript any day of the year, even if I dislike the vast majority of popular Java frameworks like Spring, Hibernate, etc.

otakucode 9y ago
Yes, I should have made it clear that Java the language is not inherently terrible. And the JVM itself is really quite nifty. It is unfortunately the infection of Java codebases (literally all of them I have seen with the sole exception of short Processing sketches made for graphical effects) with a mindset of design patterns as lego bricks used to build applications. Java did have a rough start though, there was clearly an edict at Sun to invent a nomenclature which deviated from any terminology commonly used by Microsoft which operated only to its detriment.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 9y ago
  I think the JVM itself will be Java's saving grace - languages like Scala and even Clojure now are gaining huge popularity that not only leverage the JVM and existing ecosystem but have the ability to rapidly advance and abandon Java's warts. So it's not like COBOL in that regard. Because of the power of the JVM ecosystem I think even Java's glacial pace of adopting new features will be enough to keep up for many years or even decades to come.

le-mark 9y ago

Spotted the one who's never written cobol (or jcl).

otakucode 9y ago
You are correct that I have never written COBOL (or JCL for that matter), though I'm not sure why what I said would indicate such a thing. I have seen COBOL and working COBOL systems. They are absurdly verbose. That feels like a hyperbolic understatement, really. Everything is very structured, in the nature of micromanagement in organizations, formed in that way in order to intentionally forbid flexibility. Is the COBOL I have seen 'old fashioned' perhaps? It was well over a decade ago, closer to 2, since I've looked at any. Perhaps there is a 'lightweight' COBOL?