6 ms·

Ageism is more than hiring young. It's letting people go or burning them out as they age too. These companies expect excessive overtime until people burn out. A

by danjoc 9y ago

Ageism is more than hiring young. It's letting people go or burning them out as they age too. These companies expect excessive overtime until people burn out. As developers and IT staff age, they self select out of it, because it isn't healthy. https://www.quora.com/How-many-hours-a-week-does-a-typical-Google-engineer-work https://www.quora.com/How-many-hours-a-week-does-a-typical-G... "10am to 8pm on weekdays, no work on weekends? That's not a lot, not by a long shot." See, they have such stockholm syndrome, they can't even accept that they are being overworked. How are you supposed to challenge such unhealthy company policy when "It's not a lot, not by a long shot."

HN15718653 9y ago
That answer is quite bullshitty. I was there for many years and a few teams, and 8pm was NOT the norm. In fact, it's ludicrous to even imagine a busy Google office at 8pm. 6pm it starts to slow down, by 6:30 half the office is heading out. Some people would get there super early and leave early-ish. Look, at the end of the day it's about getting shit done and COMMITTING CODE. That latter part is something a lot of people refuse to accept. It doesn't matter how smart you are or how much experience you have or whatever... if you're an IC, then deliver high-quality code (and a lot of it), and you'll have a great career.
- SailingShip 9y ago
  It's about getting shit done and COMMITTING CODE. No it's not, it's about proprietary android code and a bullshit kernel. That latter part is something a lot of people refuse to accept. It does matter how smart you are and how much experience you have, Google will never be acceptable, it is the biggest piece of spy-ware and mal-ware in history!
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- danjoc 9y ago
  >That answer is quite bullshitty. You're so focused on the time people leave the office, I can't tell if you're arguing that 50 hour weeks at Google is abnormal. That answer was upvoted by multiple Google employees/former employees. >Look, at the end of the day it's about getting shit done and COMMITTING CODE. Are you suggesting that working long hours equals more and better results? There's a stack of research to contradict you if that's your position.
  - HN15718653 9y ago
    I'm calling BS on the Quora guy's statement that Google offices typically run to 8pm. They do not, by a longshot. The typical schedule was 9-6. Now, # hours a week is a different question. Just because people leave a 6 or whatever, they often come back online at night, or work some more on weekends. That was very common. And your last point, I honestly can't put together how you think my statement about committing code had anything to do with # of hours.
- cmrdporcupine 9y ago
  Googler here, and can confirm that answer is crap for both my own office and the main campus. There are some people who might work late because they might like to. But I've never a sweatshop pressure here in my 6 years. It's not a perfect job and in fact I miss working in a place where the velocity is higher. Things in general do not move quickly at Google -- just like other big companies. But it's a job that's entirely compatible with family and a normally balanced life.
davidcbc 9y ago
10-8 on weekdays with no weekends is only 50 hours a week assuming you are working the entire time. Not ideal but it isn't an absurd amount of time either. Sure 8pm is late but they are also getting to work at 10am. People wouldn't be nearly as upset by someone saying they are at work from 8-6 I think it varies greatly depending on what team you're on but I work ~40 hours a week most weeks
- bostik 9y ago
  I can guarantee that it's far too much when you have a family. You want to be able to spend at least some time with your kid(s) and see them in a state other than overly tired and/or hyper before going to bed. If tech companies want to encourage women to join by paying them to freeze their eggs, I don't see why they wouldn't pay men to have a vasectomy too. What better way to ensure that family won't get in the way?
  - davidcbc 9y ago
    What is an acceptable amount to work then?
    - ashark 9y ago
      I do ~39-42/wk with an ~20-25min commute each way, and the only time I see my kids during the week that I'm not frantically prepping them (and myself) for the day or frantically prepping them for bed is while we're eating dinner, and the prep/cleaning of that usually eats into my and my wife's sit-down time that we're only sitting there with them maybe 15 minutes. So even at "standard" work hours I have almost zero quality time with my kids 5 days a week. If I worked 50 I'd basically not see them except to get them around in the morning and tuck them in. > What is an acceptable amount to work then? The amount of time I think ordinary non-owner workers should strive for (by which I mean in a collective action, trying-to-pass-legislation way), as far as FTE work hours, is 24/wk. 32/wk would be a good start. Hell, even just not letting companies abuse exempt status would help.
  - greglindahl 9y ago
dennis_jeeves 9y ago
danjoc, your's is one of the the most accurate observations in this thread. A side observation - for most of human history the vast majority of people lead repressed lives of peasants and there was self selection for those who survived. Today the descendants of those peasants are the software engineers and other corporate slaves. One cannot expect them to lead a meaningful life outside of what they are told to do by their corporate masters. If you told them that they had stockholm syndrome, they would mock you. They are the ones who "love" the work that they do for their corporate masters. They are the ones who glorify "keeping up to date" and in "learning new things" again for their corporate masters. Now if you did those things to benefit you directly it is another story.

by danjoc 9y ago

HN15718653 9y ago

That answer is quite bullshitty. I was there for many years and a few teams, and 8pm was NOT the norm. In fact, it's ludicrous to even imagine a busy Google office at 8pm. 6pm it starts to slow down, by 6:30 half the office is heading out. Some people would get there super early and leave early-ish. Look, at the end of the day it's about getting shit done and COMMITTING CODE. That latter part is something a lot of people refuse to accept. It doesn't matter how smart you are or how much experience you have or whatever... if you're an IC, then deliver high-quality code (and a lot of it), and you'll have a great career.

SailingShip 9y ago
It's about getting shit done and COMMITTING CODE. No it's not, it's about proprietary android code and a bullshit kernel. That latter part is something a lot of people refuse to accept. It does matter how smart you are and how much experience you have, Google will never be acceptable, it is the biggest piece of spy-ware and mal-ware in history!
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
danjoc 9y ago
>That answer is quite bullshitty. You're so focused on the time people leave the office, I can't tell if you're arguing that 50 hour weeks at Google is abnormal. That answer was upvoted by multiple Google employees/former employees. >Look, at the end of the day it's about getting shit done and COMMITTING CODE. Are you suggesting that working long hours equals more and better results? There's a stack of research to contradict you if that's your position.
- HN15718653 9y ago
  I'm calling BS on the Quora guy's statement that Google offices typically run to 8pm. They do not, by a longshot. The typical schedule was 9-6. Now, # hours a week is a different question. Just because people leave a 6 or whatever, they often come back online at night, or work some more on weekends. That was very common. And your last point, I honestly can't put together how you think my statement about committing code had anything to do with # of hours.
cmrdporcupine 9y ago
Googler here, and can confirm that answer is crap for both my own office and the main campus. There are some people who might work late because they might like to. But I've never a sweatshop pressure here in my 6 years. It's not a perfect job and in fact I miss working in a place where the velocity is higher. Things in general do not move quickly at Google -- just like other big companies. But it's a job that's entirely compatible with family and a normally balanced life.

davidcbc 9y ago

10-8 on weekdays with no weekends is only 50 hours a week assuming you are working the entire time. Not ideal but it isn't an absurd amount of time either. Sure 8pm is late but they are also getting to work at 10am. People wouldn't be nearly as upset by someone saying they are at work from 8-6 I think it varies greatly depending on what team you're on but I work ~40 hours a week most weeks

bostik 9y ago
I can guarantee that it's far too much when you have a family. You want to be able to spend at least some time with your kid(s) and see them in a state other than overly tired and/or hyper before going to bed. If tech companies want to encourage women to join by paying them to freeze their eggs, I don't see why they wouldn't pay men to have a vasectomy too. What better way to ensure that family won't get in the way?
- davidcbc 9y ago
  What is an acceptable amount to work then?
  - ashark 9y ago
    I do ~39-42/wk with an ~20-25min commute each way, and the only time I see my kids during the week that I'm not frantically prepping them (and myself) for the day or frantically prepping them for bed is while we're eating dinner, and the prep/cleaning of that usually eats into my and my wife's sit-down time that we're only sitting there with them maybe 15 minutes. So even at "standard" work hours I have almost zero quality time with my kids 5 days a week. If I worked 50 I'd basically not see them except to get them around in the morning and tuck them in. > What is an acceptable amount to work then? The amount of time I think ordinary non-owner workers should strive for (by which I mean in a collective action, trying-to-pass-legislation way), as far as FTE work hours, is 24/wk. 32/wk would be a good start. Hell, even just not letting companies abuse exempt status would help.
- greglindahl 9y ago

dennis_jeeves 9y ago

danjoc, your's is one of the the most accurate observations in this thread. A side observation - for most of human history the vast majority of people lead repressed lives of peasants and there was self selection for those who survived. Today the descendants of those peasants are the software engineers and other corporate slaves. One cannot expect them to lead a meaningful life outside of what they are told to do by their corporate masters. If you told them that they had stockholm syndrome, they would mock you. They are the ones who "love" the work that they do for their corporate masters. They are the ones who glorify "keeping up to date" and in "learning new things" again for their corporate masters. Now if you did those things to benefit you directly it is another story.