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> Now, we can debate whether these sections were made by a knife, by a cutter, or by twine but it is difficult to determine this from the carbonised loaves that
by Isamu 9y ago
> Now, we can debate whether these sections were made by a knife, by a cutter, or by twine but it is difficult to determine this from the carbonised loaves that have been excavated. It is probable that bakers may have used twine to define each of the eight sections of the panis quadratus but it does seem like a fairly intricate and tricky job to complete, requiring knots or loops at eight junctions on the twine that encircles the loaf horizontally.
I really think that scoring the loaf after raising (their method) looks nothing like the either the carbonized loaf from Pompeii or the fresco shown. What they look like is more akin to sectioning with something blunt, either with twine or a piece of wood.
Not to cut the sections, but to divide them so it can be pulled apart easily without a knife. It would be undesirable to actually cut the "skin" of the loaf. Then as they suggest, wrap twine around the circumference to pull it back together. The result would be more like a batch of rolls that can be pulled apart.
It makes sense they'd want to sell a loaf that can be easily eaten without a knife. Just scoring the loaf as they show doesn't give you a loaf that tears apart, the scores end up being just decorative and bakers do that to avoid a split when it bakes.
- lostlogin 9y agoI was also thinking about the marks and it doesn’t stack up - the circumferential one in particular though. Why would a baker tie a string around their loaf randomly - bread made up a far greater part of everyone’s diet until quite recently (basically until the modern Chorleywood process fully industrialised it, making it far less appealing). Making the job harder isn’t in anyone’s interest. That Pompeii loaf recreation looks more like 2 on top of each other when compared to frescos or the preserved one. Old style flour had next to no gluten so you wouldn’t expect much rise. It seems more likely that bread was risen in a basket or in a cloth of some sort that had a string around it. It could have been made upside down too, and so the pattern was on the plate/tray it was risen in and then turned over when put into oven. This is a standard way of patterning bread - bannatons are the current name. Both the fresco version and the recreation look delicious.
- phjesusthatguy3 9y agoI had to look up the Chorleywood process[0] because I had never heard of it, and it turns out I probably haven't ever had bread made using it. Is it any worse than American mass-produced bread? It sounds like it was designed to work with the quality of wheat grown, rather than anything else. [0]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorleywood_bread_process
- Spooky23 9y agoIt’s like a more bland wonder bread. Truly awful stuff.
- rwmj 9y agoReally there are two products. Bread, and white-sliced bread, the latter made by the Chorleywood process and having only a vague resemblence to the former. The white sliced stuff has its uses though - toast, sandwiches, egg soldiers, bread and butter pudding, bread sauce, and other bread puddings. Just don't confuse it with real bread and you'll be fine!
- lostlogin 9y agoSorry, I meant to include that very link. It doesn’t take much real bread to turn people away from the mass produced options. Soughdough is surprisingly forgiving and can be made in a pretty lazy fashion with excellent results - just keep deleting steps in the recipe until it doesn’t work, then go back one step.
- seszett 9y agoMy theory is that the baker would use ready-made circular nets, made of a rim and four pieces of string attached to it and at their center where they cross. Then they would simply lay the net on the dough before letting it rise or before baking it. The bread expanding sideways when rising would first hold the rim into place and make the straight strings taunt, which would then leave their mark on the bread. No slow and complicated tying, no unexplained lateral groove, and an easy way to ensure that each loaf is the same size while also making convenient slices.
- mrob 9y agoThere would still be slow and complicated tying (and untying), because if the rim was permanently closed then there would be no way to remove it from the finished bread without destroying it. It's not visible in the carbonized bread, or the fresco, so we know it wasn't left in place, and it seems unlikely that an individual net was made for every piece of bread.
- seszett 9y agoTrue, but it seems almost sure to me that the rim groove is connected to the transverse ones on the burnt bread[0] which completely rules out the (already unlikely in my opinion) scoring with a knife. Then look at this picture[1], there the loaves have a lot more sections, and that seems completely impossible to tie by hand for each piece of bread. However, they could be ready-made and with just one opening on the rim, to tie before laying on the loaf (which would be easy, and could be done during off-time when waiting for the dough to rise or other loaves to bake, for example) and to untie after baking to allow removing the net. Maybe. [0] http://tavolamediterranea.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/IMG_9675.jpg http://tavolamediterranea.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/IMG... [1] http://tavolamediterranea.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Roman-Bread-Baking.jpg http://tavolamediterranea.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/Rom...
- abecedarius 9y agoI like the way you're thinking. What sort of string would survive baking? I just looked up http://www.4thegrill.com/butchers-twine/ http://www.4thegrill.com/butchers-twine/ and it says cotton and one-time use. I thought cotton was not used in Europe at the time (though I'm not sure) and I'd guess it'd be expensive at their tech level to not reuse it.
- alecst 9y agoI agree with this smart observation and just want to pick nits with this last part: > bakers do that to avoid a split when it bakes. I know from experience that slashing an under-proofed, or appropriately-proofed loaf allows it to rise more than if it weren't slashed.
- Daniel_sk 9y agoHere is a picture of another roman bread - http://kitchenboy.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/RA-breadstamp-pompeiibread.jpg http://kitchenboy.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/RA-bre... Looks more like it was baked upside-down in a form? I don't know...