13 ms·

> I think it's unethical for a platform to accept payment on my behalf without my permission. Would it be similarly unethical to accept donations to {charity}

by 33W 9y ago

> I think it's unethical for a platform to accept payment on my behalf without my permission. Would it be similarly unethical to accept donations to {charity} without first getting their approval?

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
gknoy 9y ago
If I accept donations for ${Charity}, but then say "well they have to actually ask me for it before I send it to them ...", and in the meantime it sits in my bank account, I feel like that _would_ be somewhat unethical.
- joshuamorton 9y ago
  If the charity had to jump through hoops to receive the donations, yes. If the creators could just get a check in the mail, or BAT were converted to cash and forwarded to an existing patreon, I wouldn't have the same concerns that I do as is.
  - Ajedi32 9y ago
    I'm not sure what you're expecting them to do. They already send creators an email telling them how to claim their money once the accumulated funds reach a significant amount. How is that any less convenient than a check in the mail?
    - bradleyjg 9y ago
      Are you seriously asking about what is less convenient about getting a check in the mail that can be deposited at any bank account in the world vs getting an email explaining the hoops you need to jump through in order to create an account to get access to a BAT tokens which can then be turned into cash by creating another account at some shady crypto coin exchange?
      - Ajedi32 9y ago
        What makes you think you necessarily need a separate account at an exchange? Theoretically Brave could offer to pay you via pretty much any method you want. (Direct deposit, Paypal, Bitcoin, BAT, or yes, even a check in the mail if you prefer.) They just need a way to verify that they're sending the money to the right person; it's not like they already have your address.
        trhway 9y ago
        What if they can't verify? Do they return unclaimed money to sender? To state?
        JumpCrisscross 9y ago
        Randomly accepting money from strangers is a bit of a compliance nightmare. You don’t want to chair a charity that winds up having received donations from sanctioned persons.
      - BrendanEich 9y ago
        There's no BAT to creator, they get paid in fiat via Uphold. Is it too much to at least read the docs before throwing stones?
        miyayes 9y ago
        In the screenshot of the content creator dashboard, it looks like there is a dropdown menu (BAT to [dropdown]). Can't the creator choose "BAT" in the dropdown and receive BAT (or fiat, or whatever else they like that Uphold supports)?
        reificator 9y ago
        When discussing a system that creates obligations for others, yes it is too much to ask that all users read the docs before throwing stones. If you donate via this system, you've now created an obligation for me to read an email, look up the company, read their documentation, read reviews and scam reports to ensure that they're legitimate, provide them personal information, then repeat the process for a second site, and then I can get the money you've given me. Yeah, I do think that's far, far too much.
    - logfromblammo 9y ago
      Oh, I have read emails promising me free money before! Are you saying those might have actually been legit, and that they should not have automatically gone to my spam bucket?
      - Ajedi32 9y ago
        If they were from Brave, then maybe so. But yeah, I find it pretty hilarious how much like a scam those emails are going to sound, despite being legit.
notatoad 9y ago
Is Brave going to mail me a cheque if i don't sign up for their creators platform? This isn't analogous to collecting donations for a charity and then making a bulk donation. It's analagous to collecting donations for a charity, taking a cut of those donations for your troubles, and then depositing those donations in your bank account until the charity you supposedly collected for comes and asks for them.
- ucaetano 9y ago
  > and then depositing those donations in your bank account until the charity you supposedly collected for comes and asks for them. and then not depositing those donations in your bank account until the charity you supposedly collected for comes and asks for them. Probably a typo :)
- BrendanEich 9y ago
  We're not taking donations, and there's no requirement the recipient be a charity. This is a user-driven contribution system, users decide to opt in, hold custody of tokens, and let browsing automation + any manual pinning or adjusting the like drive the tokens to creators. If creators don't register after a decently long interval, the tokens flow back to the user growth pool. Users may choose to support only verified creators/publishers. As we scale up this user growth pool "powerball" effect goes away, and the BAT becomes more dear vs. fiat, so the pool lasts longer as grants and matching scale down in token quantity per user.
dragonwriter 9y ago
It would be unethical (and, quite probably, illegal) to actively solicit and accept donations for a named charity and then hold on to them until the named charity, with whom you had no previous arrangement, actively sought you out and applied for an account which would allow them to receive them.
- quadrangle 9y ago
  not a lawyer, but I've heard elsewhere that this is indeed illegal
- Ajedi32 9y ago
  I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think this is really the same thing. First of all, Brave doesn't just sit idly by and wait for creators to seek them out; they attempt to contact creators via email to let them know there are funds available for them to claim. Second, Brave is completely transparent about how the process works. They're not claiming to donors that the funds _will_ reach their intended destination and then not delivering. The method they use to deliver cash to creators is clearly explained on their website.
  - ucaetano 9y ago
    "Hey, we have money for you! All you need to do is send us your social security number, address and bank account information. This is legit, we promise we're not from Nigeria" Yeah, sounds legit.
    - Sir_Substance 9y ago
      Yep, that's pretty shitty. I don't know what info brave asks for, but I have pretty tight PII requirements for services I use. If I think Braves terms are unreasonable, is there a reconciliation process I can undertake, or does brave just keep my readers tips? Shady as fuck.
      - StavrosK 9y ago
        I just finished the process. To verify a site, you upload a file to the site, or add a DNS record, and then you can access your BAT. I don't know how you can withdraw, though. EDIT: Oh, wait, they make you register a wallet on a site called uphold.com, which will just send the tokens to your Ether wallet or convert them to another cryptocurrency or pay you to your bank. You do have to register for KYC after $1000 worth of income, they say.

by 33W 9y ago

> I think it's unethical for a platform to accept payment on my behalf without my permission. Would it be similarly unethical to accept donations to {charity} without first getting their approval?

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

gknoy 9y ago

If I accept donations for ${Charity}, but then say "well they have to actually ask me for it before I send it to them ...", and in the meantime it sits in my bank account, I feel like that _would_ be somewhat unethical.

joshuamorton 9y ago
If the charity had to jump through hoops to receive the donations, yes. If the creators could just get a check in the mail, or BAT were converted to cash and forwarded to an existing patreon, I wouldn't have the same concerns that I do as is.
- Ajedi32 9y ago
  I'm not sure what you're expecting them to do. They already send creators an email telling them how to claim their money once the accumulated funds reach a significant amount. How is that any less convenient than a check in the mail?
  - bradleyjg 9y ago
    Are you seriously asking about what is less convenient about getting a check in the mail that can be deposited at any bank account in the world vs getting an email explaining the hoops you need to jump through in order to create an account to get access to a BAT tokens which can then be turned into cash by creating another account at some shady crypto coin exchange?
    - Ajedi32 9y ago
      What makes you think you necessarily need a separate account at an exchange? Theoretically Brave could offer to pay you via pretty much any method you want. (Direct deposit, Paypal, Bitcoin, BAT, or yes, even a check in the mail if you prefer.) They just need a way to verify that they're sending the money to the right person; it's not like they already have your address.
      - trhway 9y ago
        What if they can't verify? Do they return unclaimed money to sender? To state?
      - JumpCrisscross 9y ago
        Randomly accepting money from strangers is a bit of a compliance nightmare. You don’t want to chair a charity that winds up having received donations from sanctioned persons.
    - BrendanEich 9y ago
      There's no BAT to creator, they get paid in fiat via Uphold. Is it too much to at least read the docs before throwing stones?
      - miyayes 9y ago
        In the screenshot of the content creator dashboard, it looks like there is a dropdown menu (BAT to [dropdown]). Can't the creator choose "BAT" in the dropdown and receive BAT (or fiat, or whatever else they like that Uphold supports)?
      - reificator 9y ago
        When discussing a system that creates obligations for others, yes it is too much to ask that all users read the docs before throwing stones. If you donate via this system, you've now created an obligation for me to read an email, look up the company, read their documentation, read reviews and scam reports to ensure that they're legitimate, provide them personal information, then repeat the process for a second site, and then I can get the money you've given me. Yeah, I do think that's far, far too much.
  - logfromblammo 9y ago
    Oh, I have read emails promising me free money before! Are you saying those might have actually been legit, and that they should not have automatically gone to my spam bucket?
    - Ajedi32 9y ago
      If they were from Brave, then maybe so. But yeah, I find it pretty hilarious how much like a scam those emails are going to sound, despite being legit.

notatoad 9y ago

Is Brave going to mail me a cheque if i don't sign up for their creators platform? This isn't analogous to collecting donations for a charity and then making a bulk donation. It's analagous to collecting donations for a charity, taking a cut of those donations for your troubles, and then depositing those donations in your bank account until the charity you supposedly collected for comes and asks for them.

ucaetano 9y ago
> and then depositing those donations in your bank account until the charity you supposedly collected for comes and asks for them. and then not depositing those donations in your bank account until the charity you supposedly collected for comes and asks for them. Probably a typo :)
BrendanEich 9y ago
We're not taking donations, and there's no requirement the recipient be a charity. This is a user-driven contribution system, users decide to opt in, hold custody of tokens, and let browsing automation + any manual pinning or adjusting the like drive the tokens to creators. If creators don't register after a decently long interval, the tokens flow back to the user growth pool. Users may choose to support only verified creators/publishers. As we scale up this user growth pool "powerball" effect goes away, and the BAT becomes more dear vs. fiat, so the pool lasts longer as grants and matching scale down in token quantity per user.

dragonwriter 9y ago

It would be unethical (and, quite probably, illegal) to actively solicit and accept donations for a named charity and then hold on to them until the named charity, with whom you had no previous arrangement, actively sought you out and applied for an account which would allow them to receive them.

quadrangle 9y ago
not a lawyer, but I've heard elsewhere that this is indeed illegal
Ajedi32 9y ago
I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think this is really the same thing. First of all, Brave doesn't just sit idly by and wait for creators to seek them out; they attempt to contact creators via email to let them know there are funds available for them to claim. Second, Brave is completely transparent about how the process works. They're not claiming to donors that the funds _will_ reach their intended destination and then not delivering. The method they use to deliver cash to creators is clearly explained on their website.
- ucaetano 9y ago
  "Hey, we have money for you! All you need to do is send us your social security number, address and bank account information. This is legit, we promise we're not from Nigeria" Yeah, sounds legit.
  - Sir_Substance 9y ago
    Yep, that's pretty shitty. I don't know what info brave asks for, but I have pretty tight PII requirements for services I use. If I think Braves terms are unreasonable, is there a reconciliation process I can undertake, or does brave just keep my readers tips? Shady as fuck.
    - StavrosK 9y ago
      I just finished the process. To verify a site, you upload a file to the site, or add a DNS record, and then you can access your BAT. I don't know how you can withdraw, though. EDIT: Oh, wait, they make you register a wallet on a site called uphold.com, which will just send the tokens to your Ether wallet or convert them to another cryptocurrency or pay you to your bank. You do have to register for KYC after $1000 worth of income, they say.