3 ms·

I suspect there is still a business model there. When I was looking for access to machine shop tools in Boston area (I primarily needed a good accuracy CNC mill

by ptero 9y ago

I suspect there is still a business model there. When I was looking for access to machine shop tools in Boston area (I primarily needed a good accuracy CNC mill) I found nothing that worked for me. Best match was a "maker space" with a mess inside, 4 machines 2 of which were broken (including their one CNC) and remaining two looking suspicious. How can I use machines? Take a class after sign up. When is the next class? Not sure, in a few months maybe; they fill quick, too, so keep checking often. The attitude of an admin I checked with was "get lost, we have enough members already". I finally found what I needed at a university hobby shop: working machines, busy but good access to tools, efficient admins. To get CNC access I needed 2 short classes that I could both schedule within 2 weeks. Before I found that though I would gladly pay higher membership fees for a clean, efficient machine shop access. Just my 2c.

sfifs 9y ago
Market size would be a challenge. You likely represent a very niche segment - a highly technically savvy hobbyist who wants to work on tools yourself for the love of it. For anyone doing requiring 3D printing, CNC etc professionally or even as a semi serious hobby, I'm sure there would be firms who can execute and fedex you the job. Here in Singapore when I moved into our apartment, I ended up having to design a custom child safety lock for my windows. I found quite a few 3D print shops which could deliver the next day at quite a reasonable rate - fast enough for me to iterate the final design within a week.
- ptero 9y ago
  > Market size would be a challenge. Possibly, but I am not sure about this. When I was looking (about 5-7 yrs ago, US, Boston area) there were two types: cheap and nonfunctional beyond toys or "we run your jobs for you". First type, as they are cheap, have no interest in new members building things; in fact, as the membership is so cheap they try to sell all sorts of overpriced classes as memberships do not cover costs. At the other end there are those who take your design and ship you the product, as you said. This is OK for many cases, but gets pretty expensive and inefficient for prototyping. And there was nothing in between to fill this wide gap. In fact, when I was looking for such a shop and asked friends if they know a place that would let me pay membership to use a decent quality 3+ axis CNC mill and a laser cutter no one knew of a place but several said if I found one, would I please let them know. So I suspect the market is there. The situation is much better with 3D printing -- there are small shops everywhere and some could even let you come inside and iterate if you chat with owners. However, inexpensive 3D printing is nowhere near the accuracy, reliability and robustness of the end product you get with inexpensive milling.
  - mdorazio 9y ago
    I think you just answered your own question there. Look up the price of a 3-axis mill with the capabilities you're looking for. The cheapest you'll find is probably the Tormach 440, which starts at about $7K. A laser cutter in the range you're likely looking for runs about the same. Now look at the unit economics on that and figure out how many people like you would need to pay to use the machines before breaking even, before even getting into rent, maintenance costs, insurance, and the inevitable repairs needed when a non-professional uses it and breaks it. It's just not worth it to have that level of machinery available to the public unless it's part of a bigger TechShop-like setup where dues are a grand a year and classes that much again (there's a similar place to TechShop in Orange County, for example, with an almost identical cost structure). For what it's worth, I run a 3D printing shop (we also have a laser cutter and woodworking equipment) and we let people prototype on our machines occasionally. 3D printing is an order of magnitude more accessible than milling, and probably about twice as easy as laser cutting, and if one of our machines goes down due to user error, it's cheap and easy to replace parts and won't stop operations since there are plenty of others.
  - sfifs 9y ago
    > This is OK for many cases, but gets pretty expensive and inefficient for prototyping I used to think so too once upon a time and i used to etch PCBs myself etc. Then my child was born and the value of my own time sky-rocketed. Now even when prototyping my hobbies, I'd rather focus on the work where my doing it adds value especially with the internet making producing custom designs a commodity.

by ptero 9y ago

sfifs 9y ago

Market size would be a challenge. You likely represent a very niche segment - a highly technically savvy hobbyist who wants to work on tools yourself for the love of it. For anyone doing requiring 3D printing, CNC etc professionally or even as a semi serious hobby, I'm sure there would be firms who can execute and fedex you the job. Here in Singapore when I moved into our apartment, I ended up having to design a custom child safety lock for my windows. I found quite a few 3D print shops which could deliver the next day at quite a reasonable rate - fast enough for me to iterate the final design within a week.

ptero 9y ago
> Market size would be a challenge. Possibly, but I am not sure about this. When I was looking (about 5-7 yrs ago, US, Boston area) there were two types: cheap and nonfunctional beyond toys or "we run your jobs for you". First type, as they are cheap, have no interest in new members building things; in fact, as the membership is so cheap they try to sell all sorts of overpriced classes as memberships do not cover costs. At the other end there are those who take your design and ship you the product, as you said. This is OK for many cases, but gets pretty expensive and inefficient for prototyping. And there was nothing in between to fill this wide gap. In fact, when I was looking for such a shop and asked friends if they know a place that would let me pay membership to use a decent quality 3+ axis CNC mill and a laser cutter no one knew of a place but several said if I found one, would I please let them know. So I suspect the market is there. The situation is much better with 3D printing -- there are small shops everywhere and some could even let you come inside and iterate if you chat with owners. However, inexpensive 3D printing is nowhere near the accuracy, reliability and robustness of the end product you get with inexpensive milling.
- mdorazio 9y ago
  I think you just answered your own question there. Look up the price of a 3-axis mill with the capabilities you're looking for. The cheapest you'll find is probably the Tormach 440, which starts at about $7K. A laser cutter in the range you're likely looking for runs about the same. Now look at the unit economics on that and figure out how many people like you would need to pay to use the machines before breaking even, before even getting into rent, maintenance costs, insurance, and the inevitable repairs needed when a non-professional uses it and breaks it. It's just not worth it to have that level of machinery available to the public unless it's part of a bigger TechShop-like setup where dues are a grand a year and classes that much again (there's a similar place to TechShop in Orange County, for example, with an almost identical cost structure). For what it's worth, I run a 3D printing shop (we also have a laser cutter and woodworking equipment) and we let people prototype on our machines occasionally. 3D printing is an order of magnitude more accessible than milling, and probably about twice as easy as laser cutting, and if one of our machines goes down due to user error, it's cheap and easy to replace parts and won't stop operations since there are plenty of others.
- sfifs 9y ago
  > This is OK for many cases, but gets pretty expensive and inefficient for prototyping I used to think so too once upon a time and i used to etch PCBs myself etc. Then my child was born and the value of my own time sky-rocketed. Now even when prototyping my hobbies, I'd rather focus on the work where my doing it adds value especially with the internet making producing custom designs a commodity.