8 ms·

Founder series limited to 1000 requires full deposit, that's $250 mil Base model requires $45k deposit. Not sure what semi requirements are. Even if they are

Founder series limited to 1000 requires full deposit, that's $250 mil Base model requires $45k deposit. Not sure what semi requirements are. Even if they are biting off more than they can chew, they can gauge reaction and devote more/less to this. I'm thinking that these ventures give their engineers a space to get really creative and push the envelope. And, these advancements make their way into the mainstream models.

aerophilic 9y ago
I think that may be the core point of why they are doing this. They are in a cash crunch, if they get enough deposits it can certainly help their bottom line... without dilution.
- doikor 9y ago
  Developing a car like to a car to that state (drivable at the event) will have taken 2 or 3 years already so I doubt it originally started as a fix for cash flow.
  - aerophilic 9y ago
    Agreed, but I would be surprised if that didn’t play into the math. One of Elon’s greatest strengths is to think ahead strategically and position himself for maximum upside towards his goals. So yes, I am sure he didn’t think he would need this to help with Model 3, but I am sure he knew he would need more cash on hand to make another “big bet”. Unfortunately it looks like this cash will go to current projects rather than a brand new initiative. Unless of course this was to help with Tesla Semi...
rottyguy 9y ago
What's even more amazing is that F or GM couldn't possibly do this. First mover advantage plus the allure of someone like Musk is what is needed. I know many bash him for spreading himself too thin among all his other ambitions but it gives him good will capital (which can translate to economic capital) when needed.
- fma 9y ago
  If they need more cash then they can just have another investor round. There's enough fan boys that would invest. I would prefer that Ford and GM not do this... I don't see how producing a $250,000 car will help the common folk, which is who Ford and GM serves. Tesla had first mover advantage with their Model 3 and now they are floundering. GM's Chevy Bolt is out producing and out selling the Model 3 despite first movers advantage and all the 'good will' Tesla generated... Despite people saying 'GM could never do this'. I also don't know why you would say Ford or GM couldn't do it when they produce vehicles that race in Nascar and have R&D for that sport. Ford and GM are mature companies and expected to actually make money, while Tesla is expected to make good will and headlines. I'll be more excited when Tesla meets their originally projected production numbers.
  - fhood 9y ago
    Don't underestimate the importance of these flagship cars. They serve a purpose. Why do you think Ford has the GT? They are a test bed for new technologies and increase brand prestige.
  - vermontdevil 9y ago
    Ford does produce cars that are not for the "common folk". Same with Mercedes, BMW, etc.
  - rottyguy 9y ago
    I'll note the original date for the 5k and 10k/week numbers were end of 2018 and 2020. Musk pushed it by 2yrs so "floundering" seems unfair here.
- saturdaysaint 9y ago
  "First mover advantage" is a concept that applies to platforms, and not to a millionaire status symbol/fashion statement. Most people spending $200,000+ on a vehicle want to be among the only people at the country club with it. This looks like a hot car, but I wouldn't hesitate to test drive Aston Martins or Ferrari's if I was playing with that kind of cash. Also, GM and Ford do highly profitable business with the wealthy - Ford pickups are the most owned vehicle among millionaires and Cadillac keeps turning profits that Musk should envy.
gregornobis 9y ago
$250mil sounds a lot - until you remember they currently burn through $400mil of cash in a month
- tdiggity 9y ago
  oh please. they're putting money into R&D and into the ramp up. Your statement makes it sound like they're using the money to wipe their @$$es. No, they're putting the money to work. And if the analysts and shareholders didn't believe that, the stock would tank.
  - gregornobis 9y ago
    Very true. Belief - not actual results - is what is behind Tesla's valuation.
    - frogpelt 9y ago
      Is Tesla that different from Amazon 15 years ago? Net income was flat but the revenue kept going up.
- Danihan 9y ago
  They also just laid off a ton of people, so maybe that burn rate is going to lower quite a bit.
  - sf_rob 9y ago
    $400M a month would be equivalent to ~20k full time engineer's total compensation, so I doubt layoffs will put a serious dent in it.
    - Danihan 9y ago
      Good point.
  - greglindahl 9y ago

aerophilic 9y ago

I think that may be the core point of why they are doing this. They are in a cash crunch, if they get enough deposits it can certainly help their bottom line... without dilution.

doikor 9y ago
Developing a car like to a car to that state (drivable at the event) will have taken 2 or 3 years already so I doubt it originally started as a fix for cash flow.
- aerophilic 9y ago
  Agreed, but I would be surprised if that didn’t play into the math. One of Elon’s greatest strengths is to think ahead strategically and position himself for maximum upside towards his goals. So yes, I am sure he didn’t think he would need this to help with Model 3, but I am sure he knew he would need more cash on hand to make another “big bet”. Unfortunately it looks like this cash will go to current projects rather than a brand new initiative. Unless of course this was to help with Tesla Semi...

rottyguy 9y ago

What's even more amazing is that F or GM couldn't possibly do this. First mover advantage plus the allure of someone like Musk is what is needed. I know many bash him for spreading himself too thin among all his other ambitions but it gives him good will capital (which can translate to economic capital) when needed.

fma 9y ago
If they need more cash then they can just have another investor round. There's enough fan boys that would invest. I would prefer that Ford and GM not do this... I don't see how producing a $250,000 car will help the common folk, which is who Ford and GM serves. Tesla had first mover advantage with their Model 3 and now they are floundering. GM's Chevy Bolt is out producing and out selling the Model 3 despite first movers advantage and all the 'good will' Tesla generated... Despite people saying 'GM could never do this'. I also don't know why you would say Ford or GM couldn't do it when they produce vehicles that race in Nascar and have R&D for that sport. Ford and GM are mature companies and expected to actually make money, while Tesla is expected to make good will and headlines. I'll be more excited when Tesla meets their originally projected production numbers.
- fhood 9y ago
  Don't underestimate the importance of these flagship cars. They serve a purpose. Why do you think Ford has the GT? They are a test bed for new technologies and increase brand prestige.
- vermontdevil 9y ago
  Ford does produce cars that are not for the "common folk". Same with Mercedes, BMW, etc.
- rottyguy 9y ago
  I'll note the original date for the 5k and 10k/week numbers were end of 2018 and 2020. Musk pushed it by 2yrs so "floundering" seems unfair here.
saturdaysaint 9y ago
"First mover advantage" is a concept that applies to platforms, and not to a millionaire status symbol/fashion statement. Most people spending $200,000+ on a vehicle want to be among the only people at the country club with it. This looks like a hot car, but I wouldn't hesitate to test drive Aston Martins or Ferrari's if I was playing with that kind of cash. Also, GM and Ford do highly profitable business with the wealthy - Ford pickups are the most owned vehicle among millionaires and Cadillac keeps turning profits that Musk should envy.

gregornobis 9y ago

$250mil sounds a lot - until you remember they currently burn through $400mil of cash in a month

tdiggity 9y ago
oh please. they're putting money into R&D and into the ramp up. Your statement makes it sound like they're using the money to wipe their @$$es. No, they're putting the money to work. And if the analysts and shareholders didn't believe that, the stock would tank.
- gregornobis 9y ago
  Very true. Belief - not actual results - is what is behind Tesla's valuation.
  - frogpelt 9y ago
    Is Tesla that different from Amazon 15 years ago? Net income was flat but the revenue kept going up.
Danihan 9y ago
They also just laid off a ton of people, so maybe that burn rate is going to lower quite a bit.
- sf_rob 9y ago
  $400M a month would be equivalent to ~20k full time engineer's total compensation, so I doubt layoffs will put a serious dent in it.
  - Danihan 9y ago
    Good point.
- greglindahl 9y ago