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People really decided to hate Peter Thiel during the last election. But he is right about the fact that you can’t do anything in the physical world in the Unite

People really decided to hate Peter Thiel during the last election. But he is right about the fact that you can’t do anything in the physical world in the United States anymore. Between housing and real estate prices, insurance, taxes, lack of government support, environmental protections, requirement to pay for health insurance for employees,layers of regulations, minimum wage laws, sexual harassment lawsuits (it only takes one and your company is over)...you just can’t operate a physical space with drills, laser cutters, saws, advanced electronics and machinery at a profit in America anymore. TechShop was the last gasp of American industry having any sort of future. With Tech Shop, we can also probably say good bye to a good deal of real trade skills people learn at these locations. They really tried to make it work. I have spoken to some of their founders myself - The amount of work it takes to set up even one of these facilities is simply staggering. If I were to show you the spreadsheets, business plans and research these guys invest to open ONE shop it genuinely rivals that of a full startup per location. My heart really breaks. There are a few companies able to survive with physical presences like this in the Bay Area now, but they are all backed by the power of Jabil, Flextronics, Autodesk. Some small indie chain can’t make it in these conditions. Unfortunately, we can expect more of this as a country. We are one recession away from a full republican route (they are doing a spectacularly awful job and deserve to be thrown out) and all signs are pointing to a fully socialist government being next in line. Socialist governments are not known for their desire to roll back worker protections, undo environmental protections and regulations, nor is their focus on enabling businesses. Although I will say Canada seems to be doing better than us in many ways when it comes to accelerating genuinely valuable little companies like TechShop. I am genuinely beginning to advise people to consider moving to Asia where innovation is able to happen, it won’t be done in a America anytime soon. Between Trump and his socialist successor - and the wonderful incompetent state of California I don’t have a good feeling about American innovation anymore.

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Taniwha 9y ago
You know I suspect there's going to be a whole lot of cool tools cheap on the market real soon now ... go out there and start your own, don't complain because someone else isn't
- convolvatron 9y ago
  there already is, tech shop or no. machining and fabrication shops are falling like flies. expect to pay about 5x scrap value (used to be 2x, but scrap just fell a lot) for used machine tools from the 60s. new chinese knockoffs can be ok if you are discerning and don't have to pay shipping. an acceptable 9" swing lathe for $1k. bridgeport variable speed 36" mill for $2k. chinese tig for $1.2k. nice 20" throat doall style bandsaw for $1.5k. sweet new horizontal bandsaws are only $1k. 1/4" plasma cutter is $600 though I suspect if you want to open to the public insurance is going to be astronomical
astura 9y ago
So because one company hardly anyone has heard of went out of business, likely due to mismanagement, that means there is an imminent Socialist revolution? Yeah.... thats.... just nonsense. Makerspaces are very much still a thing, we have a thriving one here and I live in a small town.
Jtsummers 9y ago
> There are a few companies able to survive with physical presences like this in the Bay Area now, but they are all backed by the power of Jabil, Flextronics, Autodesk. Some small indie chain can’t make it in these conditions. Why do they need to be in such an expensive place then? Go somewhere they can actually afford, like most of the rest of the country.
yuhong 9y ago
I have been pointing out that the ad bubble also affects housing prices for a while now.
zkms 9y ago
> Between housing and real estate prices, insurance, taxes, lack of government support, environmental protections, requirement to pay for health insurance for employees,layers of regulations, minimum wage laws, sexual harassment lawsuits (it only takes one and your company is over)...you just can’t operate a physical space with drills, laser cutters, saws, advanced electronics and machinery at a profit in America anymore. There's also all sorts of zoning hell.
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vpribish 9y ago
take a deep breath, my friend, it's not the apocalypse. the US still has and is still creating new manufacturing. Tesla in the bay area. Boeing, the oil industry, all of biotech and medical devices. Even in the maker-type-world dig what Adafruit is doing is Brooklyn. The good ol' days of a middle-class factory floor producing widgets with hand-operated tools is pretty much gone because of labor costs - gone to japan, mexico, then china, and now just gone-gone to automation. If you want to be a Randian captain of industry - that ship has sailed, docked, offloaded, and been towed to the breakers in south asia. If you care more about making new and better things more quickly, this is the best it's ever been.
rgbrenner 9y ago
How silly. One small company fails, and you jump to this end of the US scenario. You really need to take a step back, and get some perspective. The US is the 2nd largest manufacturer in the world. That happens in the physical world -- something you seem to have forgotten. 150m people go to work everyday, doing plenty of things in the physical world too. Millions of businesses have figured out how to pay for health insurance, office space, and the rest that you think prevents companies from existing. I'm sure TechShop put in a lot of effort into their locations.. but maybe you should take a tour of a Ford or Boeing plant. They operate all of that equipment, and a lot of far more advanced equipment, all at a profit. And the socialist bit at the end? Even the Democracts arent that socialist.. no one that far left is electable in the US. Bernie couldn't even get through his own party (and before you scream: but the democrats conspired against him... that's right, his own party wouldn't go along with him).
- ataturk 9y ago
  Today's Democrats are pretty far to the left, but I don't think TechShops' complicated business model failed because of that. I'm sure the high cost of insurance didn't help and thank Obama for that, plus all the lawyers. But the Maker thing was a fad. It will come back a different way, it's not completely dead, it's just that people realized it is actually difficult to design, cut, carve, weld, mold and otherwise create.
pmikesell 9y ago
People are down voting you, and yes people hate Pete Thiel. At the same time I see this current thread (the one we're reading, abut TechShop running out of money) full of people saying they would have joined but it was too expensive. What you are saying at least partially makes some sense and it makes me sad people are downvoting you in a clearly reactionary way.
- deleted 9y ago
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- Jtsummers 9y ago
  > TechShop was the last gasp of American industry having any sort of future. I suspect downvotes because of this, as much as the politics. The absurdity of a small, nonprofitable company being "the last gasp of American industry" and the odd lamentations around that. I live in the Southeast. Drive through nearly any county in GA, NC, and SC (the region I'm presently most familiar with) and you'll find a surprisingly large number of manufacturing centers. > With Tech Shop, we can also probably say good bye to a good deal of real trade skills people learn at these locations. And none of the people working in them were trained by Tech Shop. They were trained on the job or in trade and tech schools.
  - pmikesell 9y ago
    Sure, your right - I was just trying to say that something was ringing true in his statement ... people finding it too expensive to learn stuff like this, meanwhile the company trying to do it not making enough money to stay afloat.
  - Aloha 9y ago
    Heck, drive thru the midwest, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin - and you'll see a ton of manufacturing going on.
starky 9y ago
That is absolutely wrong. There is plenty of physical things you can do in the United States right now. Large manufacturing is cheaper to do in North America than to ship halfway around the world. Manufacturing that can be automated can be done here profitably. I even work for a company that makes nearly all their products in North America.
danblick 9y ago
I'll miss the option of visiting techshop to take a welding class or use a laser cutter, but it's not like it's the last makerspace even in the bay area... https://www.reddit.com/r/Techshop/comments/7d7e0m/san_francisco_san_jose_area_makers_group/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Techshop/comments/7d7e0m/san_franci...

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Taniwha 9y ago

You know I suspect there's going to be a whole lot of cool tools cheap on the market real soon now ... go out there and start your own, don't complain because someone else isn't

convolvatron 9y ago
there already is, tech shop or no. machining and fabrication shops are falling like flies. expect to pay about 5x scrap value (used to be 2x, but scrap just fell a lot) for used machine tools from the 60s. new chinese knockoffs can be ok if you are discerning and don't have to pay shipping. an acceptable 9" swing lathe for $1k. bridgeport variable speed 36" mill for $2k. chinese tig for $1.2k. nice 20" throat doall style bandsaw for $1.5k. sweet new horizontal bandsaws are only $1k. 1/4" plasma cutter is $600 though I suspect if you want to open to the public insurance is going to be astronomical

astura 9y ago

So because one company hardly anyone has heard of went out of business, likely due to mismanagement, that means there is an imminent Socialist revolution? Yeah.... thats.... just nonsense. Makerspaces are very much still a thing, we have a thriving one here and I live in a small town.

Jtsummers 9y ago

> There are a few companies able to survive with physical presences like this in the Bay Area now, but they are all backed by the power of Jabil, Flextronics, Autodesk. Some small indie chain can’t make it in these conditions. Why do they need to be in such an expensive place then? Go somewhere they can actually afford, like most of the rest of the country.

yuhong 9y ago

I have been pointing out that the ad bubble also affects housing prices for a while now.

zkms 9y ago

> Between housing and real estate prices, insurance, taxes, lack of government support, environmental protections, requirement to pay for health insurance for employees,layers of regulations, minimum wage laws, sexual harassment lawsuits (it only takes one and your company is over)...you just can’t operate a physical space with drills, laser cutters, saws, advanced electronics and machinery at a profit in America anymore. There's also all sorts of zoning hell.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

vpribish 9y ago

take a deep breath, my friend, it's not the apocalypse. the US still has and is still creating new manufacturing. Tesla in the bay area. Boeing, the oil industry, all of biotech and medical devices. Even in the maker-type-world dig what Adafruit is doing is Brooklyn. The good ol' days of a middle-class factory floor producing widgets with hand-operated tools is pretty much gone because of labor costs - gone to japan, mexico, then china, and now just gone-gone to automation. If you want to be a Randian captain of industry - that ship has sailed, docked, offloaded, and been towed to the breakers in south asia. If you care more about making new and better things more quickly, this is the best it's ever been.

rgbrenner 9y ago

How silly. One small company fails, and you jump to this end of the US scenario. You really need to take a step back, and get some perspective. The US is the 2nd largest manufacturer in the world. That happens in the physical world -- something you seem to have forgotten. 150m people go to work everyday, doing plenty of things in the physical world too. Millions of businesses have figured out how to pay for health insurance, office space, and the rest that you think prevents companies from existing. I'm sure TechShop put in a lot of effort into their locations.. but maybe you should take a tour of a Ford or Boeing plant. They operate all of that equipment, and a lot of far more advanced equipment, all at a profit. And the socialist bit at the end? Even the Democracts arent that socialist.. no one that far left is electable in the US. Bernie couldn't even get through his own party (and before you scream: but the democrats conspired against him... that's right, his own party wouldn't go along with him).

ataturk 9y ago
Today's Democrats are pretty far to the left, but I don't think TechShops' complicated business model failed because of that. I'm sure the high cost of insurance didn't help and thank Obama for that, plus all the lawyers. But the Maker thing was a fad. It will come back a different way, it's not completely dead, it's just that people realized it is actually difficult to design, cut, carve, weld, mold and otherwise create.

pmikesell 9y ago

People are down voting you, and yes people hate Pete Thiel. At the same time I see this current thread (the one we're reading, abut TechShop running out of money) full of people saying they would have joined but it was too expensive. What you are saying at least partially makes some sense and it makes me sad people are downvoting you in a clearly reactionary way.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
Jtsummers 9y ago
> TechShop was the last gasp of American industry having any sort of future. I suspect downvotes because of this, as much as the politics. The absurdity of a small, nonprofitable company being "the last gasp of American industry" and the odd lamentations around that. I live in the Southeast. Drive through nearly any county in GA, NC, and SC (the region I'm presently most familiar with) and you'll find a surprisingly large number of manufacturing centers. > With Tech Shop, we can also probably say good bye to a good deal of real trade skills people learn at these locations. And none of the people working in them were trained by Tech Shop. They were trained on the job or in trade and tech schools.
- pmikesell 9y ago
  Sure, your right - I was just trying to say that something was ringing true in his statement ... people finding it too expensive to learn stuff like this, meanwhile the company trying to do it not making enough money to stay afloat.
- Aloha 9y ago
  Heck, drive thru the midwest, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin - and you'll see a ton of manufacturing going on.

starky 9y ago

That is absolutely wrong. There is plenty of physical things you can do in the United States right now. Large manufacturing is cheaper to do in North America than to ship halfway around the world. Manufacturing that can be automated can be done here profitably. I even work for a company that makes nearly all their products in North America.

danblick 9y ago

I'll miss the option of visiting techshop to take a welding class or use a laser cutter, but it's not like it's the last makerspace even in the bay area... https://www.reddit.com/r/Techshop/comments/7d7e0m/san_francisco_san_jose_area_makers_group/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Techshop/comments/7d7e0m/san_franci...