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Unlike their cars, if they want to be successful they will need to release factory service manuals and sell parts to repair them. It's not going to be acceptabl

Unlike their cars, if they want to be successful they will need to release factory service manuals and sell parts to repair them. It's not going to be acceptable to send it to some far away service center to be repaired, at least for small outfits that heavily use all their equipment. When a critical piece of equipment is down, the mechanic is going to be working through the night hacking it together, possibly waiting on parts that are being overnighted. Diesel mechanics tend to be ridiculously intelligent and very resourceful.

ktta 9y ago
I mean, with Semi's isn't a big thing going to be about self driving, therefore not needing such experienced drivers? I'm not saying have a kid on there, but what angle do they have if not for self-driving? Poor range, unrepairability?
- giarc 9y ago
  The comment you are replying to is about repair, not about the drivers. Did you maybe mean to reply to a different comment?
  - ktta 9y ago
    >Diesel mechanics tend to be ridiculously intelligent and very resourceful. I was just saying about maybe the driver being in the picture isn't something Tesla is going for. A prime argument Tesla has was about eventually eliminating the need for so many drivers. "If not that, then what else?" was what I wanted to say. EDIT: They seem to have a range of 500 miles. Which is 1/3 the range of normal diesel semi's.
    - qntty 9y ago
      A mechanic isn't a driver
RoboTeddy 9y ago
> Diesel mechanics tend to be ridiculously intelligent and very resourceful Cooool! Can we have a story about this?
- tsomctl 9y ago
  Don't have any particularly good story. They are just really good at understanding and fixing anything mechanical using the most basic of tools. I actually think that the type of brain that makes you good at programming is similar to being a good mechanic.
  - ehnto 9y ago
    Absolutely, trouble shooting requires abstract thought and following long logical chains as to why something is failing. Cars are complex systems just like software can be, good knowledge of many different domains inside your main discipline is required to put the pieces together. I have always found good mechanics to be really switched on individuals.
  - NovaS1X 9y ago
    Yep. I've found that my troubleshooting methodology and being able to break down complex systems is equally transferable in between software and mechanics. I think that systems and software people are the "modern" mechanics of the world. It explains a lot as to why my father and grandfather were both mechanics and tradesmen, and I'm now a systems guy.
tty7 9y ago
I have read the same comment (slightly modified) on HN since telsa announced their first vehicle. Tell me, have you actually worked on a new model truck? Because the days of a service manual and a backyard shed are over
- greenyoda 9y ago
  I don't think they're talking about a backyard shed. More like a distribution business with a fleet of 50 trucks, a well-equipped garage and a full-time mechanic.
  - tty7 9y ago
    fair point, I'd love to hear more from that perspective. I didn't mean a literal backyard shed :), but a more general mechanic.
    - kamaal 9y ago
      You could have a team from Tesla sitting there for service alone. That solves the problem. A lot of things are this way today.
- King-Aaron 9y ago
  > Because the days of a service manual and a backyard shed are over They really aren't, as much as the manufacturers like to tell you they are. Sure, the sheer amount of sensors/vacuum systems/electronics/etc make it look too complex for the layman, but as long as you've got an OBD scanner and a laptop, you can make quick work of most things. The biggest issue is manufacturers currently having an obsession with inverse torx head bolts in unusual and frustrating places (i.e. pull the top end off the engine using only a 10mm, 14mm and 17mm, and then juuuust at the last step, there's a sudden 6.5mm inverse torx bit needed to be fetched from Narnia.). But you can always get parts. Electric cars will be just the same - in fact, I think they'll be easier for the home electrician to work on. Most of the modular manufacturer-specific parts can be interchanged for other components (inverters, batteries, etc). It won't look as neat and clean, but considering that electric cars are fundamentally less complex than internal combustion engines I don't think people will struggle.
PhasmaFelis 9y ago
> It's not going to be acceptable to send it to some far away service center to be repaired, at least for small outfits that heavily use all their equipment. Hmmm. Doesn't Tesla usually offer a loaner car while a Tesla is in for repairs? If they did the same thing with semis, would shipping companies accept it?
- termie 9y ago
  If the math works there — could now or over time — then once L5 hits imagine the possibilities. L5 trucks towing broken L5 trucks with a third taking the cargo. I missed the video, but I’d bet huge that needed tech is probably prototyped already, at least in the elonoggin. Well done Elon!
  - Smushman 9y ago
    "at least in the elonoggin. Well done Elon!" You got a little doo doo on your nose. elonoggin? Really??!
    - termie 9y ago
      Still kinda giddy about the Roadster, too. Guilty — can’t get enough of Elon’s disruption (personal life aside) —- sue me or grab the pitchforks.. i’ll serve you lemonade. :)
- taneq 9y ago
  So sort of a subscription model for trucks? You buy (or more likely rent) "a truck" and Tesla supplies you with "a truck" but it's not necessarily always the same truck?
  - njarboe 9y ago
    Musk talked about people leasing these trucks, not buying them, so maybe that is the current plan.
greglindahl 9y ago
You might be pleased to learn that much of the sparsely-populated area of the US does its Tesla car repairs -- including minor stuff like replacing the engine -- with teams of 2 workers and a van -- and 4 hours for that engine swap. Now imagine how that might work out for the truck industry.
kamaal 9y ago
This is true only if your product is designed to tinker. Or you generally have to replace plug and play parts. When desktops came along many people wondered if they could be serviced as easily as TVs. The answer turns out to be simple, they don't have to be. If the repair + component costs turn out to be in the same ball park as replacing the plug and play part, you don't have to service individual PCBs. To give you a example, recently I had a broken Dell Monitor. Got it fixed in 20 mins at a local service store. Apparently the technician simply removed the whole PCB and put a new one in its place. And there were only 3-4 such PCBs. You only need to be as intelligent as the abstract interface allows you to be.

ktta 9y ago

I mean, with Semi's isn't a big thing going to be about self driving, therefore not needing such experienced drivers? I'm not saying have a kid on there, but what angle do they have if not for self-driving? Poor range, unrepairability?

giarc 9y ago
The comment you are replying to is about repair, not about the drivers. Did you maybe mean to reply to a different comment?
- ktta 9y ago
  >Diesel mechanics tend to be ridiculously intelligent and very resourceful. I was just saying about maybe the driver being in the picture isn't something Tesla is going for. A prime argument Tesla has was about eventually eliminating the need for so many drivers. "If not that, then what else?" was what I wanted to say. EDIT: They seem to have a range of 500 miles. Which is 1/3 the range of normal diesel semi's.
  - qntty 9y ago
    A mechanic isn't a driver

RoboTeddy 9y ago

> Diesel mechanics tend to be ridiculously intelligent and very resourceful Cooool! Can we have a story about this?

tsomctl 9y ago
Don't have any particularly good story. They are just really good at understanding and fixing anything mechanical using the most basic of tools. I actually think that the type of brain that makes you good at programming is similar to being a good mechanic.
- ehnto 9y ago
  Absolutely, trouble shooting requires abstract thought and following long logical chains as to why something is failing. Cars are complex systems just like software can be, good knowledge of many different domains inside your main discipline is required to put the pieces together. I have always found good mechanics to be really switched on individuals.
- NovaS1X 9y ago
  Yep. I've found that my troubleshooting methodology and being able to break down complex systems is equally transferable in between software and mechanics. I think that systems and software people are the "modern" mechanics of the world. It explains a lot as to why my father and grandfather were both mechanics and tradesmen, and I'm now a systems guy.

tty7 9y ago

I have read the same comment (slightly modified) on HN since telsa announced their first vehicle. Tell me, have you actually worked on a new model truck? Because the days of a service manual and a backyard shed are over

greenyoda 9y ago
I don't think they're talking about a backyard shed. More like a distribution business with a fleet of 50 trucks, a well-equipped garage and a full-time mechanic.
- tty7 9y ago
  fair point, I'd love to hear more from that perspective. I didn't mean a literal backyard shed :), but a more general mechanic.
  - kamaal 9y ago
    You could have a team from Tesla sitting there for service alone. That solves the problem. A lot of things are this way today.
King-Aaron 9y ago
> Because the days of a service manual and a backyard shed are over They really aren't, as much as the manufacturers like to tell you they are. Sure, the sheer amount of sensors/vacuum systems/electronics/etc make it look too complex for the layman, but as long as you've got an OBD scanner and a laptop, you can make quick work of most things. The biggest issue is manufacturers currently having an obsession with inverse torx head bolts in unusual and frustrating places (i.e. pull the top end off the engine using only a 10mm, 14mm and 17mm, and then juuuust at the last step, there's a sudden 6.5mm inverse torx bit needed to be fetched from Narnia.). But you can always get parts. Electric cars will be just the same - in fact, I think they'll be easier for the home electrician to work on. Most of the modular manufacturer-specific parts can be interchanged for other components (inverters, batteries, etc). It won't look as neat and clean, but considering that electric cars are fundamentally less complex than internal combustion engines I don't think people will struggle.

PhasmaFelis 9y ago

> It's not going to be acceptable to send it to some far away service center to be repaired, at least for small outfits that heavily use all their equipment. Hmmm. Doesn't Tesla usually offer a loaner car while a Tesla is in for repairs? If they did the same thing with semis, would shipping companies accept it?

termie 9y ago
If the math works there — could now or over time — then once L5 hits imagine the possibilities. L5 trucks towing broken L5 trucks with a third taking the cargo. I missed the video, but I’d bet huge that needed tech is probably prototyped already, at least in the elonoggin. Well done Elon!
- Smushman 9y ago
  "at least in the elonoggin. Well done Elon!" You got a little doo doo on your nose. elonoggin? Really??!
  - termie 9y ago
    Still kinda giddy about the Roadster, too. Guilty — can’t get enough of Elon’s disruption (personal life aside) —- sue me or grab the pitchforks.. i’ll serve you lemonade. :)
taneq 9y ago
So sort of a subscription model for trucks? You buy (or more likely rent) "a truck" and Tesla supplies you with "a truck" but it's not necessarily always the same truck?
- njarboe 9y ago
  Musk talked about people leasing these trucks, not buying them, so maybe that is the current plan.

greglindahl 9y ago

You might be pleased to learn that much of the sparsely-populated area of the US does its Tesla car repairs -- including minor stuff like replacing the engine -- with teams of 2 workers and a van -- and 4 hours for that engine swap. Now imagine how that might work out for the truck industry.

kamaal 9y ago

This is true only if your product is designed to tinker. Or you generally have to replace plug and play parts. When desktops came along many people wondered if they could be serviced as easily as TVs. The answer turns out to be simple, they don't have to be. If the repair + component costs turn out to be in the same ball park as replacing the plug and play part, you don't have to service individual PCBs. To give you a example, recently I had a broken Dell Monitor. Got it fixed in 20 mins at a local service store. Apparently the technician simply removed the whole PCB and put a new one in its place. And there were only 3-4 such PCBs. You only need to be as intelligent as the abstract interface allows you to be.