4 ms·

Agree with this. My personal way of saying this is "we all do racist things, but very few of us are racist." Very often the most pragmatic choice in a situatio

Agree with this. My personal way of saying this is "we all do racist things, but very few of us are racist." Very often the most pragmatic choice in a situation also happens to be racist. Just own the racist things you do, and try to change the world for the better so you are no longer pushed into doing racist things.

aaron-lebo 9y ago
I don't buy that. Moving out of an area due to declining property values is not inherently racist. It's a mix of economic, cultural, and class issues. Calling that racism is to potentially miss the root cause of much of this stuff, and it has to do with poverty. The poor of any ethnic group or race are treated badly.
humanrebar 9y ago
> we all do racist things, but very few of us are racist That's confusing because you're using two different definitions of the word "racist" in the same sentence. At some point we should do everyone a favor and use two words when we mean two things.
- exelius 9y ago
  They’re the same word describing different things. Many white people are aghast at being accused of doing something racist because it implies that they themselves are racist. It shouldn’t, and it hampers the conversation to imply it does (the same logic can be applied to sexism and most other isms as well). Not saying there aren’t racists out there (lol tiki torches), but most people don’t fall into that category.
  - humanrebar 9y ago
    Surely you see the issue when the same word describes perhaps the worst atrocities in human history and something people can't help being or doing. The implication is that people can't help but be the scum of the earth. Two words for two concepts would decrease the stakes of the conversation and perhaps make room for some actual understanding and progress.
  - weberc2 9y ago
    Right, so like the parent said, it would be better if people didn't coopt an existing word to mean something else. Especially when "something else" is often merely "disagreeing with someone".
- curun1r 9y ago
  I'd say instead that a PoC can be negatively affected by racism that isn't the result of a racist act by someone else. This is why it's so easy for people who don't experience it to minimize or otherwise feel that racism is less of a problem than it actually is. We don't feel like racists and we (probably correctly) assume that others are mostly like us. And so if we and most others like us aren't being racist, racism must not be much of a problem. Aside from the property values example someone else listed, here's another one. If a well-off community decides to impose a tax on their residents to help fund the local schools, that doesn't feel racist. Everyone is just trying to ensure a quality education for their children. But what that does is allow the underfunded public school system to remain underfunded. If everyone's children were receiving substandard educations, there would be more pressure on the state to fix the situation for everyone in the state. But when only the poor communities are underfunded thanks to the wealthier communities kicking in those extra funds, you end up with those poor, primarily PoC students having lower-quality schools. In that way, overt racism from previous eras created a status quo that, through non-overt racism, gets perpetuated going forward.
  - humanrebar 9y ago
    > ...a PoC can be negatively affected by racism... > ...that isn't the result of a racist act... Here, again, the words "racism" and "racist" mean two different things. I'm not sure why there's so much hesitance to just call the different things by different names. Also, nobody has minimized anything. I don't think clarity in communication promotes injustice or ignorance. On the contrary, actually.
    - curun1r 9y ago
      No, they don't mean two different things any more than food means two separate things when describing broccoli and ice cream. It's a broad term that covers many more nuanced concepts. I was attempting to cover the difference between overt racism and systemic racism. There's your two separate terms but both are absolutely forms of racism and to say that systemic racism isn't is just an attempt to rid it of the stigma that rightly gets associated with the term racism.

aaron-lebo 9y ago

I don't buy that. Moving out of an area due to declining property values is not inherently racist. It's a mix of economic, cultural, and class issues. Calling that racism is to potentially miss the root cause of much of this stuff, and it has to do with poverty. The poor of any ethnic group or race are treated badly.

humanrebar 9y ago

> we all do racist things, but very few of us are racist That's confusing because you're using two different definitions of the word "racist" in the same sentence. At some point we should do everyone a favor and use two words when we mean two things.

exelius 9y ago
They’re the same word describing different things. Many white people are aghast at being accused of doing something racist because it implies that they themselves are racist. It shouldn’t, and it hampers the conversation to imply it does (the same logic can be applied to sexism and most other isms as well). Not saying there aren’t racists out there (lol tiki torches), but most people don’t fall into that category.
- humanrebar 9y ago
  Surely you see the issue when the same word describes perhaps the worst atrocities in human history and something people can't help being or doing. The implication is that people can't help but be the scum of the earth. Two words for two concepts would decrease the stakes of the conversation and perhaps make room for some actual understanding and progress.
- weberc2 9y ago
  Right, so like the parent said, it would be better if people didn't coopt an existing word to mean something else. Especially when "something else" is often merely "disagreeing with someone".
curun1r 9y ago
I'd say instead that a PoC can be negatively affected by racism that isn't the result of a racist act by someone else. This is why it's so easy for people who don't experience it to minimize or otherwise feel that racism is less of a problem than it actually is. We don't feel like racists and we (probably correctly) assume that others are mostly like us. And so if we and most others like us aren't being racist, racism must not be much of a problem. Aside from the property values example someone else listed, here's another one. If a well-off community decides to impose a tax on their residents to help fund the local schools, that doesn't feel racist. Everyone is just trying to ensure a quality education for their children. But what that does is allow the underfunded public school system to remain underfunded. If everyone's children were receiving substandard educations, there would be more pressure on the state to fix the situation for everyone in the state. But when only the poor communities are underfunded thanks to the wealthier communities kicking in those extra funds, you end up with those poor, primarily PoC students having lower-quality schools. In that way, overt racism from previous eras created a status quo that, through non-overt racism, gets perpetuated going forward.
- humanrebar 9y ago
  > ...a PoC can be negatively affected by racism... > ...that isn't the result of a racist act... Here, again, the words "racism" and "racist" mean two different things. I'm not sure why there's so much hesitance to just call the different things by different names. Also, nobody has minimized anything. I don't think clarity in communication promotes injustice or ignorance. On the contrary, actually.
  - curun1r 9y ago
    No, they don't mean two different things any more than food means two separate things when describing broccoli and ice cream. It's a broad term that covers many more nuanced concepts. I was attempting to cover the difference between overt racism and systemic racism. There's your two separate terms but both are absolutely forms of racism and to say that systemic racism isn't is just an attempt to rid it of the stigma that rightly gets associated with the term racism.