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> If you promulgate the belief that cultures should not mix, you cannot disavow blame for violence committed against those of another culture just because you p

> If you promulgate the belief that cultures should not mix, you cannot disavow blame for violence committed against those of another culture just because you personally didn't raise a hand against them. This is a slippery slope fallacy, saying any sort of action in one direction will lead to or promote violence. A lot can be accomplished without violence. > You are conflating laws with culture to make a strawman. No, I'm not. Those are laws because they are social norms that have been deemed unacceptable to break, thus are enforced. Regardless of whether or not you call the cops, you would still think they're crazy for walking around naked, because our cultural norms say that anyone walking around naked is crazy, not because they're breaking the law. > GP specifically talked about black culture, not violent-religious-fundamentalism-nudist culture. Where did I mention a violent-religious-fundamentalism-nudist culture? Be honest, would that _really_ be the first thing you think about when you see someone walking naked in the middle of the street?

colanderman 9y ago
> Where did I mention a violent-religious-fundamentalism-nudist culture? By mentioning "stoning", "shunning", and "nudism" as "examples" of different cultures. That's absurd, as absurd as my joke combining the three. Let me reword your hypotheticals. If someone walked down the street in a hijab, would you think they're "crazy"? If someone celebrated different holidays than you, prayed to different gods, or spoke a minority dialect of English, would you look at that person with disdain? Because many people do. Many of the same ones who "don't like multiculturalism". And that's the racism that minorities encounter in this country, day in, day out. And, regarding "slippery slope", consider that desire for cultural homogeneity has no history of correlation with violence in this country. [1] [2] [3] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_integration_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_integration_in_the_Unit... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_school_desegregation_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_school_desegregati... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ole_Miss_riot_of_1962 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ole_Miss_riot_of_1962
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  > You did. By mentioning "stoning", "shunning", and "nudism" as "examples" of different cultures. That's absurd, as absurd as my joke combining the three. You're twisting my words in an attempt to delegitimize my statements. Those are real facets of different cultures, and acting like each doesn't happen somewhere in the world is disingenuous. > if someone walked down the street in a hijab, would you think they're "crazy"? If someone celebrated different holidays than you, prayed to different gods, or spoke a minority dialect of English, would you look at that person with disdain? There is a spectrum of responses. I personally wouldn't look at them with disdain, but I would also have no desire to interact with them. I don't understand why they would go to an area of the world with a fundamentally different worldview from themselves. > You are living in a hole if you think that belief in anti-miscegenation (which, let's be honest, is really what "not liking multiculturalism" is) and violence have no history of correlation in this country. First, you're conflating race and culture, which are very different things. Race is determined by genetics and ancestry and can't be changed, while culture is a way of life, and determines their view of right and wrong and how to interact socially. Second, just because there is a history of extremism doesn't mean any opinion in that direction is ridiculous. Nazis killed millions and nearly took over the world. Does that mean Republicans, who are also right-wing, should be banned? There have been black extremists who have done terrorist acts in the name of equality. Does that mean racial inequality should just stop being considered? No! I'm not saying that nonconformists should be rounded up and murdered, but I also don't think that having social standards or social pressures to conform are bad either. Like everything, it needs to be done in moderation.
  - colanderman 9y ago
    Culture has always played a part in what we call "racism" and it is disingenuous to pretend otherwise. Especially it is disingenuous to claim that racism is rare, yet that it alone, and not anti-multiculturalism, was responsible for white flight.
    - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
      > Culture has always played a part in what we call "racism" and it is disingenuous to pretend otherwise. You are right. There is generally a correlation between the two, and historically the line has been blurred. They are, however, significantly different things, and I always take care to differentiate the two. The idea that genetics and skin color determine superiority is racism, and is ignorant of the facts. A culture, though, determines basic things like family structure and the definition of right and wrong. Do we really want to argue that there is no right and wrong way to live life? > Especially it is disingenuous to claim that racism is rare, yet that it alone, and not anti-multiculturalism, was responsible for white flight. We weren't discussing white flight. I never made that claim.

colanderman 9y ago

> Where did I mention a violent-religious-fundamentalism-nudist culture? By mentioning "stoning", "shunning", and "nudism" as "examples" of different cultures. That's absurd, as absurd as my joke combining the three. Let me reword your hypotheticals. If someone walked down the street in a hijab, would you think they're "crazy"? If someone celebrated different holidays than you, prayed to different gods, or spoke a minority dialect of English, would you look at that person with disdain? Because many people do. Many of the same ones who "don't like multiculturalism". And that's the racism that minorities encounter in this country, day in, day out. And, regarding "slippery slope", consider that desire for cultural homogeneity has no history of correlation with violence in this country. [1] [2] [3] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_integration_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_integration_in_the_Unit... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_school_desegregation_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_school_desegregati... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ole_Miss_riot_of_1962 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ole_Miss_riot_of_1962

TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
> You did. By mentioning "stoning", "shunning", and "nudism" as "examples" of different cultures. That's absurd, as absurd as my joke combining the three. You're twisting my words in an attempt to delegitimize my statements. Those are real facets of different cultures, and acting like each doesn't happen somewhere in the world is disingenuous. > if someone walked down the street in a hijab, would you think they're "crazy"? If someone celebrated different holidays than you, prayed to different gods, or spoke a minority dialect of English, would you look at that person with disdain? There is a spectrum of responses. I personally wouldn't look at them with disdain, but I would also have no desire to interact with them. I don't understand why they would go to an area of the world with a fundamentally different worldview from themselves. > You are living in a hole if you think that belief in anti-miscegenation (which, let's be honest, is really what "not liking multiculturalism" is) and violence have no history of correlation in this country. First, you're conflating race and culture, which are very different things. Race is determined by genetics and ancestry and can't be changed, while culture is a way of life, and determines their view of right and wrong and how to interact socially. Second, just because there is a history of extremism doesn't mean any opinion in that direction is ridiculous. Nazis killed millions and nearly took over the world. Does that mean Republicans, who are also right-wing, should be banned? There have been black extremists who have done terrorist acts in the name of equality. Does that mean racial inequality should just stop being considered? No! I'm not saying that nonconformists should be rounded up and murdered, but I also don't think that having social standards or social pressures to conform are bad either. Like everything, it needs to be done in moderation.
- colanderman 9y ago
  Culture has always played a part in what we call "racism" and it is disingenuous to pretend otherwise. Especially it is disingenuous to claim that racism is rare, yet that it alone, and not anti-multiculturalism, was responsible for white flight.
  - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
    > Culture has always played a part in what we call "racism" and it is disingenuous to pretend otherwise. You are right. There is generally a correlation between the two, and historically the line has been blurred. They are, however, significantly different things, and I always take care to differentiate the two. The idea that genetics and skin color determine superiority is racism, and is ignorant of the facts. A culture, though, determines basic things like family structure and the definition of right and wrong. Do we really want to argue that there is no right and wrong way to live life? > Especially it is disingenuous to claim that racism is rare, yet that it alone, and not anti-multiculturalism, was responsible for white flight. We weren't discussing white flight. I never made that claim.