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> I'm pretty sure it was the offspring of people who "don't like multiculturalism" who beat me up in middle school for being part of geek culture rather than th

> I'm pretty sure it was the offspring of people who "don't like multiculturalism" who beat me up in middle school for being part of geek culture rather than the prevailing rural culture of my hometown. Any ideology taken to a violent extreme is bad. There are people who are getting beaten up for believing there should be a southern border wall. Those people beating them up are in the wrong, but that doesn't mean their opinion is baseless, merely their method of expressing their opinion is wrong. > I personally am a big fan of respecting others despite cultural differences. Yet there are bounds to what is acceptable, is there not? If someone walked down the streets naked, would you not think they're crazy? If a man wanted to stone a gay person, or shun a woman for exposing her hair, would you not look at that person with disdain? Given that there are bounds in variance for acceptable behavior, then why shouldn't there be regional differences in acceptable variance?

colanderman 9y ago
Devaluing those who don't conform to local cultural norms destigmatizes violence against them. If you promulgate the belief that cultures should not mix, you cannot disavow blame for violence committed against those of a minority culture just because you personally didn't raise a hand against them. > If someone walked down the streets naked, would you not think they're crazy? If a man wanted to stone a gay person, or shun a woman for exposing her hair, would you not look at that person with disdain? You are conflating laws with culture to make a strawman. GP specifically talked about black culture, not violent-religious-fundamentalist-nudist culture.
- TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
  > If you promulgate the belief that cultures should not mix, you cannot disavow blame for violence committed against those of another culture just because you personally didn't raise a hand against them. This is a slippery slope fallacy, saying any sort of action in one direction will lead to or promote violence. A lot can be accomplished without violence. > You are conflating laws with culture to make a strawman. No, I'm not. Those are laws because they are social norms that have been deemed unacceptable to break, thus are enforced. Regardless of whether or not you call the cops, you would still think they're crazy for walking around naked, because our cultural norms say that anyone walking around naked is crazy, not because they're breaking the law. > GP specifically talked about black culture, not violent-religious-fundamentalism-nudist culture. Where did I mention a violent-religious-fundamentalism-nudist culture? Be honest, would that _really_ be the first thing you think about when you see someone walking naked in the middle of the street?
  - colanderman 9y ago
    > Where did I mention a violent-religious-fundamentalism-nudist culture? By mentioning "stoning", "shunning", and "nudism" as "examples" of different cultures. That's absurd, as absurd as my joke combining the three. Let me reword your hypotheticals. If someone walked down the street in a hijab, would you think they're "crazy"? If someone celebrated different holidays than you, prayed to different gods, or spoke a minority dialect of English, would you look at that person with disdain? Because many people do. Many of the same ones who "don't like multiculturalism". And that's the racism that minorities encounter in this country, day in, day out. And, regarding "slippery slope", consider that desire for cultural homogeneity has no history of correlation with violence in this country. [1] [2] [3] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_integration_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_integration_in_the_Unit... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_school_desegregation_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_school_desegregati... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ole_Miss_riot_of_1962 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ole_Miss_riot_of_1962
    - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
      > You did. By mentioning "stoning", "shunning", and "nudism" as "examples" of different cultures. That's absurd, as absurd as my joke combining the three. You're twisting my words in an attempt to delegitimize my statements. Those are real facets of different cultures, and acting like each doesn't happen somewhere in the world is disingenuous. > if someone walked down the street in a hijab, would you think they're "crazy"? If someone celebrated different holidays than you, prayed to different gods, or spoke a minority dialect of English, would you look at that person with disdain? There is a spectrum of responses. I personally wouldn't look at them with disdain, but I would also have no desire to interact with them. I don't understand why they would go to an area of the world with a fundamentally different worldview from themselves. > You are living in a hole if you think that belief in anti-miscegenation (which, let's be honest, is really what "not liking multiculturalism" is) and violence have no history of correlation in this country. First, you're conflating race and culture, which are very different things. Race is determined by genetics and ancestry and can't be changed, while culture is a way of life, and determines their view of right and wrong and how to interact socially. Second, just because there is a history of extremism doesn't mean any opinion in that direction is ridiculous. Nazis killed millions and nearly took over the world. Does that mean Republicans, who are also right-wing, should be banned? There have been black extremists who have done terrorist acts in the name of equality. Does that mean racial inequality should just stop being considered? No! I'm not saying that nonconformists should be rounded up and murdered, but I also don't think that having social standards or social pressures to conform are bad either. Like everything, it needs to be done in moderation.

colanderman 9y ago

Devaluing those who don't conform to local cultural norms destigmatizes violence against them. If you promulgate the belief that cultures should not mix, you cannot disavow blame for violence committed against those of a minority culture just because you personally didn't raise a hand against them. > If someone walked down the streets naked, would you not think they're crazy? If a man wanted to stone a gay person, or shun a woman for exposing her hair, would you not look at that person with disdain? You are conflating laws with culture to make a strawman. GP specifically talked about black culture, not violent-religious-fundamentalist-nudist culture.

TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
> If you promulgate the belief that cultures should not mix, you cannot disavow blame for violence committed against those of another culture just because you personally didn't raise a hand against them. This is a slippery slope fallacy, saying any sort of action in one direction will lead to or promote violence. A lot can be accomplished without violence. > You are conflating laws with culture to make a strawman. No, I'm not. Those are laws because they are social norms that have been deemed unacceptable to break, thus are enforced. Regardless of whether or not you call the cops, you would still think they're crazy for walking around naked, because our cultural norms say that anyone walking around naked is crazy, not because they're breaking the law. > GP specifically talked about black culture, not violent-religious-fundamentalism-nudist culture. Where did I mention a violent-religious-fundamentalism-nudist culture? Be honest, would that _really_ be the first thing you think about when you see someone walking naked in the middle of the street?
- colanderman 9y ago
  > Where did I mention a violent-religious-fundamentalism-nudist culture? By mentioning "stoning", "shunning", and "nudism" as "examples" of different cultures. That's absurd, as absurd as my joke combining the three. Let me reword your hypotheticals. If someone walked down the street in a hijab, would you think they're "crazy"? If someone celebrated different holidays than you, prayed to different gods, or spoke a minority dialect of English, would you look at that person with disdain? Because many people do. Many of the same ones who "don't like multiculturalism". And that's the racism that minorities encounter in this country, day in, day out. And, regarding "slippery slope", consider that desire for cultural homogeneity has no history of correlation with violence in this country. [1] [2] [3] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_integration_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_integration_in_the_Unit... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_school_desegregation_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Orleans_school_desegregati... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ole_Miss_riot_of_1962 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ole_Miss_riot_of_1962
  - TheAdamAndChe 9y ago
    > You did. By mentioning "stoning", "shunning", and "nudism" as "examples" of different cultures. That's absurd, as absurd as my joke combining the three. You're twisting my words in an attempt to delegitimize my statements. Those are real facets of different cultures, and acting like each doesn't happen somewhere in the world is disingenuous. > if someone walked down the street in a hijab, would you think they're "crazy"? If someone celebrated different holidays than you, prayed to different gods, or spoke a minority dialect of English, would you look at that person with disdain? There is a spectrum of responses. I personally wouldn't look at them with disdain, but I would also have no desire to interact with them. I don't understand why they would go to an area of the world with a fundamentally different worldview from themselves. > You are living in a hole if you think that belief in anti-miscegenation (which, let's be honest, is really what "not liking multiculturalism" is) and violence have no history of correlation in this country. First, you're conflating race and culture, which are very different things. Race is determined by genetics and ancestry and can't be changed, while culture is a way of life, and determines their view of right and wrong and how to interact socially. Second, just because there is a history of extremism doesn't mean any opinion in that direction is ridiculous. Nazis killed millions and nearly took over the world. Does that mean Republicans, who are also right-wing, should be banned? There have been black extremists who have done terrorist acts in the name of equality. Does that mean racial inequality should just stop being considered? No! I'm not saying that nonconformists should be rounded up and murdered, but I also don't think that having social standards or social pressures to conform are bad either. Like everything, it needs to be done in moderation.