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Sears Canada had a similar approach... millions to a bunch of sr. execs and complete default on pensions to the workers. "We need this to save the company" was

Sears Canada had a similar approach... millions to a bunch of sr. execs and complete default on pensions to the workers. "We need this to save the company" was their cry. We need those sr. executives to get us out of this situation that they've been in charge of for years. Oh, Sears Canada is now out of business and the workers got nothing... but don't worry the executives that the company was so worried about received their bonuses.

test6554 9y ago
That's a terrible situation, but this is exactly why people should want their retirement savings to be kept in an account with their own name on it. When the music stops for a pension, your chair is up for grabs. When the music stops for a 401k, nobody can grab your chair.
- lovich 9y ago
  Not entirely true, the government can always take your 401k
  - Spivak 9y ago
    Government could also just imprison you indefinitely for no reason. There can't be rule of law if nobody expects rule of law.
- WorldMaker 9y ago
  Not entirely true: companies are more than happy to make extremely complicated vesting strategies for their contributions to a 401k just to make sure they can grab back as much as possible just by firing you. The lower and middle class get golden handcuffs. I've known far too many people who've worked miserable jobs far beyond what they should have just to make sure that more of their 401k vests.
maxxxxx 9y ago
I think it would be a good principle to fire the people who ran a company into bankruptcy. Same should have happened during the 2008 crisis. The way it seems to work is that execs need a lot of money if they are successful. And they also need a lot of money if they are unsuccessful.
FireBeyond 9y ago
Basically, "we need to make sure they are incentivized to perform". "I won't do my job well without a few extra million dollars." And this, "it is the employees - and more particularly the senior management team - that must execute at this critical juncture" ... "Screw you, people actually working the stores, you'll be lucky if we have a pension fund at the end of this. You need to be executing. Bonus? Haven't you heard, we're bankrupt, we have no money for that! Oh, wait, you're on the executive team, absolutely we do!"
- nrhk 9y ago
  Yea I mean it sucks to be a commodity worker vs an executive with experience, connections and ability to join any other company with way less risk and pressure. You pay them the bank because if they screw up if proliferates all the way down and they lose even more.
  - MR4D 9y ago
    And if they screw up, they still get bank. That’s what pisses people off.
ringaroundthetx 9y ago
What exactly did you expect to happen, pensions to workers?

test6554 9y ago

That's a terrible situation, but this is exactly why people should want their retirement savings to be kept in an account with their own name on it. When the music stops for a pension, your chair is up for grabs. When the music stops for a 401k, nobody can grab your chair.

lovich 9y ago
Not entirely true, the government can always take your 401k
- Spivak 9y ago
  Government could also just imprison you indefinitely for no reason. There can't be rule of law if nobody expects rule of law.
WorldMaker 9y ago
Not entirely true: companies are more than happy to make extremely complicated vesting strategies for their contributions to a 401k just to make sure they can grab back as much as possible just by firing you. The lower and middle class get golden handcuffs. I've known far too many people who've worked miserable jobs far beyond what they should have just to make sure that more of their 401k vests.

maxxxxx 9y ago

I think it would be a good principle to fire the people who ran a company into bankruptcy. Same should have happened during the 2008 crisis. The way it seems to work is that execs need a lot of money if they are successful. And they also need a lot of money if they are unsuccessful.

FireBeyond 9y ago

Basically, "we need to make sure they are incentivized to perform". "I won't do my job well without a few extra million dollars." And this, "it is the employees - and more particularly the senior management team - that must execute at this critical juncture" ... "Screw you, people actually working the stores, you'll be lucky if we have a pension fund at the end of this. You need to be executing. Bonus? Haven't you heard, we're bankrupt, we have no money for that! Oh, wait, you're on the executive team, absolutely we do!"

nrhk 9y ago
Yea I mean it sucks to be a commodity worker vs an executive with experience, connections and ability to join any other company with way less risk and pressure. You pay them the bank because if they screw up if proliferates all the way down and they lose even more.
- MR4D 9y ago
  And if they screw up, they still get bank. That’s what pisses people off.

ringaroundthetx 9y ago

What exactly did you expect to happen, pensions to workers?