6 ms·

all modern operating systems are evergreen. how is ChromeOS unique in regard to bugfixes?

blacksmith_tb 9y ago
My memory is that ChromeOS defaults to aggressively auto-updating itself, where macOS and Windows both remind / pester / offer to defer. So greener than evergreen?
- kevingadd 9y ago
  With how often serious bugs ship to Chrome release channel, I don't think evergreen is implicitly a good thing in the OS that drives my computer, especially if it's my work PC. If you look through the chromium issue tracker you can also find multiple bug reports where people were struggling to get their chromebooks to update to the latest release, because auto-update had broken. Some of those people were Google employees.
  - jacksmith21006 9y ago
    Been involved with many Chromebooks and never had a single issue with any updating. It just happens completely transparently. Chromebooks have two boot partitions. So one updates while you are using the other. You then just pick up the update all ready to go next time you boot. You have zero idea that your laptop even updated.
- nikanj 9y ago
  Windows today installs updates automatically and reboots when it's the least convenient. For a normal user, it's near-impossible to make it stop, and most people just grudgingly accept the lost work and ruined movie nights. You can google for a solution, but that solution only works on last year's version, the professional edition, or similar.
  - PuffinBlue 9y ago
    > Windows today installs updates automatically and reboots when it's the least convenient I thought that was how it worked too having just switched back to having to use windows. But you can pick a time of your choice and specify a day up to about 5 days in the future or something, so it's not as bad as I thought it was going to be. Coming from Linux it still an annoying difference between the operating systems but not as bad as people tend to make out.
    - on_and_off 9y ago
      I can confirm that in my case windows installed an update without asking me at the worst possible moment. It took a while to install and the only visible change (I am sure there were bugfixes as well) was the automatic installation of Edge & Cortana. I don't know whether it was a bug or planned but it was very agressive.
    - will_hughes 9y ago
      > But you can pick a time of your choice and specify a day up to about 5 days in the future or something, so it's not as bad as I thought it was going to be. Only if you catch it while it's prompting. I've seen people set up for a meeting/presentation/etc, test everything's working and then walk away from their computer to grab a drink. In that time, Windows has popped up a "Hey, we're going to perform updates" dialog which if you don't catch it before it disappears, becomes uncancellable/undeferrable. Depending on the update (eg Creators Edition) it then spends the next 20-45 minutes with the entire machine being unusable. I've seen many panicky tweets from people who're about to give a talk in an hour or two that they've just opened their laptop and it's resumed into the dreaded "Oh, we're just updating now!" screen.
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      > But you can pick a time of your choice and specify a day up to about 5 days in the future or something, so it's not as bad as I thought it was going to be. OTOH, when you do that there is no confirmation button on the UI, and the button placed and styled the way users expect a confirmation button to be is a “do the upgrade right now instead of at the time I just selected” button, so all is not roses and sunshine.
TrueDuality 9y ago
One of the security models built into ChromeOS is a well defined attack surface. It is not for general apps, it only runs Chrome (and things within an Android environment on newer machines). There is a comprehensive auditing and monitoring solution combination (Auditd & SELinux) that is hardened above what is normally possible on Linux desktops and servers. When an audit violation is detected ChromeOS forces an update an reboot to the new version (which takes seconds and feels almost like you've been unexpectedly logged out). All without losing any data except for unsubmitted form contents. Even if an update isn't available, the writable part of the system (not user data) is completely wiped limiting the ability of malicious actors to persist anything. It's not a panacea but it is way more aggressive and seamless than any of the major operating systems could possibly do.
- giancarlostoro 9y ago
  That's quite impressive. It's the first I even consider how secure Chrome can be aside from "it runs on Linux, it should be safe!" That aside, I wonder how much effort it takes to produce a hardened Ubuntu that behaves somewhat like ChromeOS, but you get to use any browser you want instead of just Chrome. Then you just run it under a tiling window manager (or minimal WM) to force focus on the browser, or on app at a time, while still having access to development tools (I guess the security aspect falls short here?) and maybe some office software.
fulafel 9y ago
Except Android, most embedded stuff, home "routers", iot, datacenter gear like network/storage boxes...
allenz 9y ago
One nice thing about ChromeOS is that persisting an exploit is nontrivial even after gaining root.
jacksmith21006 9y ago
Evergreen is different with ChromeOS. The updates are downloaded in the background and just picked up the next time you boot. I will get on someone's Windows box that will have updates waiting and I am like what gives? They are like I do not want to deal with the hassle. It is all about getting rid of as much friction as possible and people will actually do it. BTW, have you ever used a Chromebook?
- woodrowbarlow 9y ago
  i haven't used a chromebook. my question wasn't belligerent, it was genuine.

My memory is that ChromeOS defaults to aggressively auto-updating itself, where macOS and Windows both remind / pester / offer to defer. So greener than evergreen?

kevingadd 9y ago
With how often serious bugs ship to Chrome release channel, I don't think evergreen is implicitly a good thing in the OS that drives my computer, especially if it's my work PC. If you look through the chromium issue tracker you can also find multiple bug reports where people were struggling to get their chromebooks to update to the latest release, because auto-update had broken. Some of those people were Google employees.
- jacksmith21006 9y ago
  Been involved with many Chromebooks and never had a single issue with any updating. It just happens completely transparently. Chromebooks have two boot partitions. So one updates while you are using the other. You then just pick up the update all ready to go next time you boot. You have zero idea that your laptop even updated.
nikanj 9y ago
Windows today installs updates automatically and reboots when it's the least convenient. For a normal user, it's near-impossible to make it stop, and most people just grudgingly accept the lost work and ruined movie nights. You can google for a solution, but that solution only works on last year's version, the professional edition, or similar.
- PuffinBlue 9y ago
  > Windows today installs updates automatically and reboots when it's the least convenient I thought that was how it worked too having just switched back to having to use windows. But you can pick a time of your choice and specify a day up to about 5 days in the future or something, so it's not as bad as I thought it was going to be. Coming from Linux it still an annoying difference between the operating systems but not as bad as people tend to make out.
  - on_and_off 9y ago
    I can confirm that in my case windows installed an update without asking me at the worst possible moment. It took a while to install and the only visible change (I am sure there were bugfixes as well) was the automatic installation of Edge & Cortana. I don't know whether it was a bug or planned but it was very agressive.
  - will_hughes 9y ago
    > But you can pick a time of your choice and specify a day up to about 5 days in the future or something, so it's not as bad as I thought it was going to be. Only if you catch it while it's prompting. I've seen people set up for a meeting/presentation/etc, test everything's working and then walk away from their computer to grab a drink. In that time, Windows has popped up a "Hey, we're going to perform updates" dialog which if you don't catch it before it disappears, becomes uncancellable/undeferrable. Depending on the update (eg Creators Edition) it then spends the next 20-45 minutes with the entire machine being unusable. I've seen many panicky tweets from people who're about to give a talk in an hour or two that they've just opened their laptop and it's resumed into the dreaded "Oh, we're just updating now!" screen.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > But you can pick a time of your choice and specify a day up to about 5 days in the future or something, so it's not as bad as I thought it was going to be. OTOH, when you do that there is no confirmation button on the UI, and the button placed and styled the way users expect a confirmation button to be is a “do the upgrade right now instead of at the time I just selected” button, so all is not roses and sunshine.

TrueDuality 9y ago

One of the security models built into ChromeOS is a well defined attack surface. It is not for general apps, it only runs Chrome (and things within an Android environment on newer machines). There is a comprehensive auditing and monitoring solution combination (Auditd & SELinux) that is hardened above what is normally possible on Linux desktops and servers. When an audit violation is detected ChromeOS forces an update an reboot to the new version (which takes seconds and feels almost like you've been unexpectedly logged out). All without losing any data except for unsubmitted form contents. Even if an update isn't available, the writable part of the system (not user data) is completely wiped limiting the ability of malicious actors to persist anything. It's not a panacea but it is way more aggressive and seamless than any of the major operating systems could possibly do.

giancarlostoro 9y ago
That's quite impressive. It's the first I even consider how secure Chrome can be aside from "it runs on Linux, it should be safe!" That aside, I wonder how much effort it takes to produce a hardened Ubuntu that behaves somewhat like ChromeOS, but you get to use any browser you want instead of just Chrome. Then you just run it under a tiling window manager (or minimal WM) to force focus on the browser, or on app at a time, while still having access to development tools (I guess the security aspect falls short here?) and maybe some office software.

fulafel 9y ago

Except Android, most embedded stuff, home "routers", iot, datacenter gear like network/storage boxes...

allenz 9y ago

One nice thing about ChromeOS is that persisting an exploit is nontrivial even after gaining root.

jacksmith21006 9y ago

Evergreen is different with ChromeOS. The updates are downloaded in the background and just picked up the next time you boot. I will get on someone's Windows box that will have updates waiting and I am like what gives? They are like I do not want to deal with the hassle. It is all about getting rid of as much friction as possible and people will actually do it. BTW, have you ever used a Chromebook?

woodrowbarlow 9y ago
i haven't used a chromebook. my question wasn't belligerent, it was genuine.