8 ms·

> virtue signaling "we don't like reddit-style comments here" ninny An anonymous action cannot possibly be signaling of any kind. Words mean things.

quuquuquu 9y ago
Right, so if we downvote (literally censor) comments based on style and not content, but we also do it anonymously, it's all good, right?
- bradleyjg 9y ago
  I'm objecting to your bastardization of the English language. "Virtue signaling" doesn't mean "something I don't like". It has a specific meaning that comes out of behavioral economics. It's a quite interesting concept actually. Unfortunately it is the process of being taken by people like you and turned into a contentless insult to fling at people. That's a destruction of the richness of our linguistic commons and you ought to be ashamed of yourself for doing so. The down-voters and rightness or wrongness of their actions are a separate matter.
  - _Codemonkeyism 9y ago
    "That's a destruction of the richness of our linguistic commons and you ought to be ashamed of yourself for doing so." Never read a more US-centric comment on HN towards people who are a.) not native speakers b.) don't have the vocubulary which seems to be necessary to leave comments on HN. But I assume these are the times. Luckily the most common language in 50y will be Chinese. Hopefully they are more polite than this.
    - lostlogin 9y ago
      > Luckily the most common language in 50y will be Chinese China has multiple languages and ‘Chinese’ isn’t really a single language. Mandarin is already the most spoken language by a large margin, and even that has several dialects.
      - _Codemonkeyism 9y ago
        Luckily we have you to point out the obvious.
    - bradleyjg 9y ago
      > Never read a more US-centric comment on HN In case you aren’t aware, English is spoken in many places other than the United States. Most obviously in England.
      - _Codemonkeyism 9y ago
        In case you are not aware, British people on HN are way outnumbered by commentators from the US, so HN is US centric and by no way UK centric. Also concerning the nation-centric point of view, people from the UK are way less focused on their country and know other people outside their country exist. If you are from the UK, take my apologies. If your from the US, case in point.
  - bduerst 9y ago
    "Virtue Signalling" has been co-opted by reactionaries to be the new "SJW" snarl word. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior#.22Virtue_signalling.22 https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior#.22Virt...
dsacco 9y ago
> An anonymous action cannot possibly be signaling of any kind. Words mean things. What meaning are you ascribing to "signal"? According to a few common ones[1]: 1) two anonymous parties can exchange meaningful signals about each other or a third party thing, 2) one party can receive, either directly or via observation/interception, a meaningful signal from a group of anonymous parties exchanging signals in any permutation or combination between them. An anonymous consensus reflexively contributes a signal; if it did not, various forms of cryptography would not be possible. As a meta point, being pedantic only works if you do it correctly. Otherwise it lowers the signal to noise ratio of a forum :) ____________ 1. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/signal https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/signal
- bradleyjg 9y ago
  Signaling in this case refers to a concept from economics. Try wikipedia instead of merriam-webster.
  - dsacco 9y ago
    I still disagree, for several reasons: 1) "virtue-signaling" is an idiom that doesn't directly map to the economic concept in contract theory, so you are specifying a definition the original commenter was probably not using (it's closer to evolutionary signaling), 2) even if we assume the definition of economic signaling, unless there is a special definition for anonymity in the economic context that both you and the commenter share, it is not necessary for two individuals honestly signaling about themselves to deanonymize themselves in order to enter into a contract, 3) more pertinently to #2, I could use examples of theoretical cryptography here, but we already have applied examples: it is possible to enter into smart contracts where both parties are anonymous. It takes ~33 bits of meaningful information to uniquely identify anyone. Using the example from Wikipedia: someone betting on a sports team might be sending a signal about their own identity as a fan, but that signal is not sufficient to deanonymize them (many people are pessimistic about any given team) and it may not be honest (they may simply be a pessimistic fan).
  - bduerst 9y ago
    "Virtue Signalling" is slang, and means something more prejudiced than any academic term: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior#.22Virtue_signalling.22 https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior#.22Virt...

quuquuquu 9y ago

Right, so if we downvote (literally censor) comments based on style and not content, but we also do it anonymously, it's all good, right?

bradleyjg 9y ago
I'm objecting to your bastardization of the English language. "Virtue signaling" doesn't mean "something I don't like". It has a specific meaning that comes out of behavioral economics. It's a quite interesting concept actually. Unfortunately it is the process of being taken by people like you and turned into a contentless insult to fling at people. That's a destruction of the richness of our linguistic commons and you ought to be ashamed of yourself for doing so. The down-voters and rightness or wrongness of their actions are a separate matter.
- _Codemonkeyism 9y ago
  "That's a destruction of the richness of our linguistic commons and you ought to be ashamed of yourself for doing so." Never read a more US-centric comment on HN towards people who are a.) not native speakers b.) don't have the vocubulary which seems to be necessary to leave comments on HN. But I assume these are the times. Luckily the most common language in 50y will be Chinese. Hopefully they are more polite than this.
  - lostlogin 9y ago
    > Luckily the most common language in 50y will be Chinese China has multiple languages and ‘Chinese’ isn’t really a single language. Mandarin is already the most spoken language by a large margin, and even that has several dialects.
    - _Codemonkeyism 9y ago
      Luckily we have you to point out the obvious.
  - bradleyjg 9y ago
    > Never read a more US-centric comment on HN In case you aren’t aware, English is spoken in many places other than the United States. Most obviously in England.
    - _Codemonkeyism 9y ago
      In case you are not aware, British people on HN are way outnumbered by commentators from the US, so HN is US centric and by no way UK centric. Also concerning the nation-centric point of view, people from the UK are way less focused on their country and know other people outside their country exist. If you are from the UK, take my apologies. If your from the US, case in point.
- bduerst 9y ago
  "Virtue Signalling" has been co-opted by reactionaries to be the new "SJW" snarl word. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior#.22Virtue_signalling.22 https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior#.22Virt...

dsacco 9y ago

> An anonymous action cannot possibly be signaling of any kind. Words mean things. What meaning are you ascribing to "signal"? According to a few common ones[1]: 1) two anonymous parties can exchange meaningful signals about each other or a third party thing, 2) one party can receive, either directly or via observation/interception, a meaningful signal from a group of anonymous parties exchanging signals in any permutation or combination between them. An anonymous consensus reflexively contributes a signal; if it did not, various forms of cryptography would not be possible. As a meta point, being pedantic only works if you do it correctly. Otherwise it lowers the signal to noise ratio of a forum :) ____________ 1. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/signal https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/signal

bradleyjg 9y ago
Signaling in this case refers to a concept from economics. Try wikipedia instead of merriam-webster.
- dsacco 9y ago
  I still disagree, for several reasons: 1) "virtue-signaling" is an idiom that doesn't directly map to the economic concept in contract theory, so you are specifying a definition the original commenter was probably not using (it's closer to evolutionary signaling), 2) even if we assume the definition of economic signaling, unless there is a special definition for anonymity in the economic context that both you and the commenter share, it is not necessary for two individuals honestly signaling about themselves to deanonymize themselves in order to enter into a contract, 3) more pertinently to #2, I could use examples of theoretical cryptography here, but we already have applied examples: it is possible to enter into smart contracts where both parties are anonymous. It takes ~33 bits of meaningful information to uniquely identify anyone. Using the example from Wikipedia: someone betting on a sports team might be sending a signal about their own identity as a fan, but that signal is not sufficient to deanonymize them (many people are pessimistic about any given team) and it may not be honest (they may simply be a pessimistic fan).
- bduerst 9y ago
  "Virtue Signalling" is slang, and means something more prejudiced than any academic term: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior#.22Virtue_signalling.22 https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior#.22Virt...