4 ms·

19% of Americans think they are among the top 1% of earners and 20% more think they will be one day You attribute that to false optimism, but where's the actua

by krona 9y ago

19% of Americans think they are among the top 1% of earners and 20% more think they will be one day You attribute that to false optimism, but where's the actual evidence? Here's a more recent article, backed by empirical studies (you can buy the books if you wan't to): https://www.aei.org/publication/evidence-shows-significant-income-mobility-in-the-us-73-of-americans-were-in-the-top-20-for-at-least-a-year/print/ https://www.aei.org/publication/evidence-shows-significant-i... . And the standard point that Thomas Sowell has been making for decades: An absolute majority of the people who were in the bottom 20 percent in 1975 have also been in the top 20 percent at some time since then.

mrguyorama 9y ago
The top 20% of income distributions in America is so absurdly vast that this is essentially meaningless. At $100k, breaking into the top 20% is barely comfortable living in some parts of the country. This pales with what the top 1% and 0.1% earn.
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  While I think most people have a fantasy of being in the 1% or 0.1%, that's not really the "American Dream." The American dream is roughly a decent suburban home in a safe neighborhood. This fixation/hatred towards the 1% or 0.1% is really not something most people I know care about, at all. They may not articulate it this way, but they don't see the economy as a zero sum game. They don't see Steve Jobs making billions as something that keeps them from making tens or hundreds of thousands, or even millions if they were fortunate.
  - mrguyorama 9y ago
    The problem is not that Steve Jobs made a billion dollars. The problem is that Steve Jobs pushes for all sorts of negative things that screw over "the little guy" so that he can make another $100.
    - Consultant32452 9y ago
      Again, most people I know do not feel that Steve Jobs owes them anything to begin with. They are not fixated on the 0.1% in that way.
  - ryandrake 9y ago
    > The American dream is roughly a decent suburban home in a safe neighborhood. I dunno, that's pretty sad. Maybe I'm showing my age, but that used to be the expectation, not the dream. The American Dream is (or used to be) extraordinary economic mobility--making it big. How far we've slid where now the American Dream is merely "a decent life".
    - Consultant32452 9y ago
      Upward mobility has surely been an part of it, and yes there was some hint of "making it big" but it has always been more humble than you suggest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream >For many in both the working class and the middle class, upward mobility has served as the heart and soul of the American Dream, the prospect of "betterment" and to "improve one's lot" for oneself and one's children much of what this country is all about. "Work hard, save a little, send the kids to college so they can do better than you did, and retire happily to a warmer climate" has been the script we have all been handed. Essentially, the American Dream is the idea that hard work and dedication will result in a better life for yourself and your children. It has nothing really to do with "making it big."

by krona 9y ago

mrguyorama 9y ago

The top 20% of income distributions in America is so absurdly vast that this is essentially meaningless. At $100k, breaking into the top 20% is barely comfortable living in some parts of the country. This pales with what the top 1% and 0.1% earn.

Consultant32452 9y ago
While I think most people have a fantasy of being in the 1% or 0.1%, that's not really the "American Dream." The American dream is roughly a decent suburban home in a safe neighborhood. This fixation/hatred towards the 1% or 0.1% is really not something most people I know care about, at all. They may not articulate it this way, but they don't see the economy as a zero sum game. They don't see Steve Jobs making billions as something that keeps them from making tens or hundreds of thousands, or even millions if they were fortunate.
- mrguyorama 9y ago
  The problem is not that Steve Jobs made a billion dollars. The problem is that Steve Jobs pushes for all sorts of negative things that screw over "the little guy" so that he can make another $100.
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    Again, most people I know do not feel that Steve Jobs owes them anything to begin with. They are not fixated on the 0.1% in that way.
- ryandrake 9y ago
  > The American dream is roughly a decent suburban home in a safe neighborhood. I dunno, that's pretty sad. Maybe I'm showing my age, but that used to be the expectation, not the dream. The American Dream is (or used to be) extraordinary economic mobility--making it big. How far we've slid where now the American Dream is merely "a decent life".
  - Consultant32452 9y ago
    Upward mobility has surely been an part of it, and yes there was some hint of "making it big" but it has always been more humble than you suggest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream >For many in both the working class and the middle class, upward mobility has served as the heart and soul of the American Dream, the prospect of "betterment" and to "improve one's lot" for oneself and one's children much of what this country is all about. "Work hard, save a little, send the kids to college so they can do better than you did, and retire happily to a warmer climate" has been the script we have all been handed. Essentially, the American Dream is the idea that hard work and dedication will result in a better life for yourself and your children. It has nothing really to do with "making it big."