6 ms·

I would like to see a fair referendum about net neutrality. And by fair I mean to also see the good parts of not having net neutrality, like zero rating. Tell

I would like to see a fair referendum about net neutrality. And by fair I mean to also see the good parts of not having net neutrality, like zero rating. Tell people they can get zero rating on their favourite services, and the result of such a referendum will be uncomfortable for many. I'm really tired of seeing people everywhere thinking net neutrality is "unquestionable", "universally good" and "the will of the people". Ever bothered to ask anyone outside the tech circles? Or you simply think you know what's best for everybody?

murph-almighty 9y ago
This is why you tell people about the consequences of no net neutrality. Ask people if they like being more-or-less forced to use some companies over others, or if they like paying a premium for online gaming. Ask people how they'd feel if Optimum decided to slow down traffic to Fox News if Fox News released a story unfavorable to Optimum. Ask people how they'd feel if a startup that intended to compete with Netflix was effectively shut out of the market by deals like theirs with TMobile. Better yet, show them an image of internet packages ala cable. That'll make them change their tune.
- kfriede 9y ago
  I have no problem with any of the above, IF and ONLY IF the barriers to entry for competition weren't so high. I feel that the only reason we are discussing NN right now is because government regulation has effectively given major telcos a safety net wherein they can make small competition jump through an infinite amount of hoops to service an area. Free up the protectionism we're granting to major telcos and let the consumer choose what they are willing to pay for. Edit: Ultimately the consumer must own the "last mile" that is feeding their residence. In that way, ISPs would lease space in the residential IDF to tie willing customers in that neighborhood in.
  - fiter 9y ago
    This is absolutely the issue at hand. The two sides are monopoly + public utilities commission (FCC) or market competition. To get market competition, we'll still have to have SOME monopoly unless you want multiple "last miles".
    - chiaro 9y ago
      Nah, you just have to regulate that line owners must lend access at a set rate to any ISP that wants it.
volak 9y ago
I work for a growing medium sized ISP - and I'm against net neutrality. I could write an entire essay about the unintended consequences, hypocrisy, ridiculous internet memes, and monopolies but I'll only leave one point that hopefully strikes a chord in those who only see one side. As a smaller ISP we are constantly asked for cheaper plans for - typically - older people who "just want to check their email." Thanks to net neutrality we cannot offer these people anything. We are forced to compete DIRECTLY against the comcast's and AT&T's in our region. A competition where our only weapon is cost. And if we lower our costs we only get a bunch of power users who consume 10x more bandwidth than typical users - the big business marketing departments eat our budgets for breakfast. Without net neutrality the first thing we'd do is setup a "email only" plan - charge $5 a month and literally knock on doors in retirement homes and sign up swaths of people. We could probably oversell the single line by an order of magnitude more than usual. Net neutrality directly prevents any sort of choice for the consumer as to what level of internet access they want or need. And yes that might sound scary - but the VAST majority of people in certain age groups just simply dont WANT to pay $80 a month to check their email.
- tome 9y ago
  Why can't you just sell them a capped data allowance? I don't see any reason why you need to know where their traffic is going.
  - volak 9y ago
    Because they want all their grandchildren's pictures too. Telling a customer they have full access to anything on their email vs telling a customer they have 500mb a month. Which do you think sells better?
    - davidcbc 9y ago
      What happens when the photos are on Google Photos? What happens when they need to update their browser because theirs is outdated and becomes incompatible? What happens when one of their grandchildren sends them a YouTube link to their concert performance from school? I absolutely guarantee you that in each of these scenarios they will call and complain because their email isn't working. They think that they only want email, but what they really want is to access the internet via their email.
s73ver_ 9y ago
Zero rating is only good for the companies that get it. If you're trying to compete with a company that has zero rating, but you don't, then you're fucked. You're gonna have to do a much, much better job of explaining why zero rating is a good thing.

murph-almighty 9y ago

This is why you tell people about the consequences of no net neutrality. Ask people if they like being more-or-less forced to use some companies over others, or if they like paying a premium for online gaming. Ask people how they'd feel if Optimum decided to slow down traffic to Fox News if Fox News released a story unfavorable to Optimum. Ask people how they'd feel if a startup that intended to compete with Netflix was effectively shut out of the market by deals like theirs with TMobile. Better yet, show them an image of internet packages ala cable. That'll make them change their tune.

kfriede 9y ago
I have no problem with any of the above, IF and ONLY IF the barriers to entry for competition weren't so high. I feel that the only reason we are discussing NN right now is because government regulation has effectively given major telcos a safety net wherein they can make small competition jump through an infinite amount of hoops to service an area. Free up the protectionism we're granting to major telcos and let the consumer choose what they are willing to pay for. Edit: Ultimately the consumer must own the "last mile" that is feeding their residence. In that way, ISPs would lease space in the residential IDF to tie willing customers in that neighborhood in.
- fiter 9y ago
  This is absolutely the issue at hand. The two sides are monopoly + public utilities commission (FCC) or market competition. To get market competition, we'll still have to have SOME monopoly unless you want multiple "last miles".
  - chiaro 9y ago
    Nah, you just have to regulate that line owners must lend access at a set rate to any ISP that wants it.

volak 9y ago

I work for a growing medium sized ISP - and I'm against net neutrality. I could write an entire essay about the unintended consequences, hypocrisy, ridiculous internet memes, and monopolies but I'll only leave one point that hopefully strikes a chord in those who only see one side. As a smaller ISP we are constantly asked for cheaper plans for - typically - older people who "just want to check their email." Thanks to net neutrality we cannot offer these people anything. We are forced to compete DIRECTLY against the comcast's and AT&T's in our region. A competition where our only weapon is cost. And if we lower our costs we only get a bunch of power users who consume 10x more bandwidth than typical users - the big business marketing departments eat our budgets for breakfast. Without net neutrality the first thing we'd do is setup a "email only" plan - charge $5 a month and literally knock on doors in retirement homes and sign up swaths of people. We could probably oversell the single line by an order of magnitude more than usual. Net neutrality directly prevents any sort of choice for the consumer as to what level of internet access they want or need. And yes that might sound scary - but the VAST majority of people in certain age groups just simply dont WANT to pay $80 a month to check their email.

tome 9y ago
Why can't you just sell them a capped data allowance? I don't see any reason why you need to know where their traffic is going.
- volak 9y ago
  Because they want all their grandchildren's pictures too. Telling a customer they have full access to anything on their email vs telling a customer they have 500mb a month. Which do you think sells better?
  - davidcbc 9y ago
    What happens when the photos are on Google Photos? What happens when they need to update their browser because theirs is outdated and becomes incompatible? What happens when one of their grandchildren sends them a YouTube link to their concert performance from school? I absolutely guarantee you that in each of these scenarios they will call and complain because their email isn't working. They think that they only want email, but what they really want is to access the internet via their email.

s73ver_ 9y ago

Zero rating is only good for the companies that get it. If you're trying to compete with a company that has zero rating, but you don't, then you're fucked. You're gonna have to do a much, much better job of explaining why zero rating is a good thing.