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Sorry, I'm gonna have to flame Dell out here. I own a Dell XPS 13 9365, a 2-in-1 laptop. Dell have decided, arbitrarily, not to support Linux on this machine,

Sorry, I'm gonna have to flame Dell out here. I own a Dell XPS 13 9365, a 2-in-1 laptop. Dell have decided, arbitrarily, not to support Linux on this machine, but you can still actually make it run by disabling Secure Boot and setting the SATA mode to AHCI. Even then, Ubuntu doesn't seem to detect when you've rotated the screen for tablet mode or stuff like that -- but that's probably Ubuntu's driver support. The machine also can't wake up from suspend mode, which I suspect is a driver thing. Problem is, if you then apply a typical, recommended firmware upgrade from your Ubuntu Software Manager, it bricks the laptop. The problem being, "applying" the firmware upgrade in Ubuntu just primes it to run when you restart the computer. When you restart the computer, the BIOS detects a present firmware upgrade and applies it, without apparently double-checking that, you know, this isn't gonna brick the computer. I now have to wait for a technician to arrive today and replace my motherboard, then figure out how to change those BIOS settings again so that I can boot back into Linux. Maybe Ubuntu could have stopped this by detecting compatibility issues between the firmware package and the hardware. Dell's BIOS definitely should have stopped this by detecting the compatibility issue between its own settings and the firmware package. Alternately, if the issue is that, for instance, the BIOS won't check these packages because I've disabled Secure Boot, the BIOS needs to bloody well differentiate between Secure Boot for operating systems (which we want off, because we own our laptops, thank you very much) and for BIOS/firmware packages (which we want on, because why brick a good machine?). Overall, great machine, but bad Dell, no cookie.

bobowzki 9y ago
I had a Dell XPS 13 i7 with Ubuntu pre installed that I sent back within a day because of lack of support for qhd display and horrible electrical "coil whining".
beavis2 9y ago
Did you check for Linux support before you purchased it? If not, you can't blame Dell for your choice. (I'm the type of person to buy the car before choosing the tyres)
- eli_gottlieb 9y ago
  It's a computer. No firmware update supplied by the manufacturer should ever brick it, no matter what operating system I put on it, which I can put on because it's my computer, not Dell's. That's the whole point of having a separate BIOS and operating system.
  - ktta 9y ago
    There's a reason why companies say they support specific OSes. You'll have a point if they said they supported linux. But they don't.
    - eli_gottlieb 9y ago
      Rubbish. Driver problems are mine. Firmware and BIOS problems are theirs. Legally, they didn't sell me a "computer experience" to be had in a walled garden. They sold me a computer. What they provide, such as signed firmware and BIOS updates, needs to either work correctly, or safely refuse to run on an unsupported machine. What it should not do is brick the machine by assuming it only runs inside a walled garden and breaking things -- because, again, they sold me a computer, not a walled garden. Otherwise the precedent might as well be set that, for instance, firmware updates are not required to work in the case that I've installed LibreOffice instead of Microsoft Word. After all, Dell made no commitment to supporting LibreOffice, so why should I expect the firmware update to work? Well, because it's an orthogonal concern, and because they sold me hardware, dammit, not software experiences.
rlpb 9y ago
I really wanted this same laptop, but I got the 9360 in the end because of the lack of Ubuntu support on the 9365. > Dell have decided, arbitrarily, not to support Linux on this machine...Ubuntu doesn't seem to detect when you've rotated the screen for tablet mode or stuff like that I suspect that this is exactly the reason why Dell decided not to ship with Ubuntu on this particular machine. I'm not sure that GNOME has support for tablet mode yet; Unity 7 (16.04 LTS) certainly doesn't. > Maybe Ubuntu could have stopped this by detecting compatibility issues between the firmware package and the hardware. Firmware updates come directly from https://fwupd.org/ https://fwupd.org/ I believe. Ubuntu (like other distributions) doesn't have anything to do with distribution and release management of the the firmware blobs themselves; that's done entirely by Dell I believe. > Dell's BIOS definitely should have stopped this by detecting the compatibility issue between its own settings and the firmware package. What exactly do you mean by "brick"? Dell explicitly don't support Ubuntu on this particular machine. If you had been running Windows, would you still be stuck? If not, I don't think you can reasonably blame Dell here. They don't QA with Ubuntu (or any Linux) on this hardware, and you knew this before you purchased.
- eli_gottlieb 9y ago
  >Ubuntu (like other distributions) doesn't have anything to do with distribution and release management of the the firmware blobs themselves; that's done entirely by Dell I believe. Indeed, and yet here y'all are, saying that if I didn't want a brick, I shouldn't have run Linux. Ubuntu didn't do anything to the hardware, it just queued up a Dell-distributed, Dell-released firmware update to run upon BIOS POST. Since this update was supplied by the manufacturer, I expect that at the very least, it can check for BIOS settings which render the update incompatible, and should most probably just, you know, install itself cleanly. It should never, ever brick the machine, because why in the hell is the manufacturer sending me something that bricks their own hardware? >What exactly do you mean by "brick"? By brick I mean brick. It fails POST and the several input combinations for resetting to a clean BIOS don't work either. Dell is having to send a technician to me to replace the motherboard, after which I can once again figure out the BIOS settings to run Ubuntu cleanly. This doesn't mean that Ubuntu crashes after GRUB loads it. It means the BIOS no longer loads, period, let alone GRUB and Ubuntu. >Dell explicitly don't support Ubuntu on this particular machine. If you had been running Windows, would you still be stuck? If not, I don't think you can reasonably blame Dell here. They don't QA with Ubuntu (or any Linux) on this hardware, and you knew this before you purchased. Bull. They QA their own BIOS and firmware. The whole point of firmware-BIOS-OS separation is that the operating system never even speaks to the BIOS directly. BIOS runs the bootloader, bootloader loads the OS, OS proceeds according to a standard for how PCs are run. What I do to customize the machine is my responsibility, but proprietary updates from the manufacturer are theirs. If I've altered the BIOS settings to run a different operating system, the update needs to detect the altered settings and, if necessary, refuse to run. Then I can get on with my usage of the machine I bought. It's not my job customize their firmware, nor should their firmware updates have compatibility issues that cripple the BIOS, ever, period.
tayo42 9y ago
> The machine also can't wake up from suspend mode, which I suspect is a driver thing. I'm not the only one. I haven't seen anything on the internet about this model. This is driving me insane, feels like im always wasting power.

bobowzki 9y ago

I had a Dell XPS 13 i7 with Ubuntu pre installed that I sent back within a day because of lack of support for qhd display and horrible electrical "coil whining".

beavis2 9y ago

Did you check for Linux support before you purchased it? If not, you can't blame Dell for your choice. (I'm the type of person to buy the car before choosing the tyres)

eli_gottlieb 9y ago
It's a computer. No firmware update supplied by the manufacturer should ever brick it, no matter what operating system I put on it, which I can put on because it's my computer, not Dell's. That's the whole point of having a separate BIOS and operating system.
- ktta 9y ago
  There's a reason why companies say they support specific OSes. You'll have a point if they said they supported linux. But they don't.
  - eli_gottlieb 9y ago
    Rubbish. Driver problems are mine. Firmware and BIOS problems are theirs. Legally, they didn't sell me a "computer experience" to be had in a walled garden. They sold me a computer. What they provide, such as signed firmware and BIOS updates, needs to either work correctly, or safely refuse to run on an unsupported machine. What it should not do is brick the machine by assuming it only runs inside a walled garden and breaking things -- because, again, they sold me a computer, not a walled garden. Otherwise the precedent might as well be set that, for instance, firmware updates are not required to work in the case that I've installed LibreOffice instead of Microsoft Word. After all, Dell made no commitment to supporting LibreOffice, so why should I expect the firmware update to work? Well, because it's an orthogonal concern, and because they sold me hardware, dammit, not software experiences.

rlpb 9y ago

I really wanted this same laptop, but I got the 9360 in the end because of the lack of Ubuntu support on the 9365. > Dell have decided, arbitrarily, not to support Linux on this machine...Ubuntu doesn't seem to detect when you've rotated the screen for tablet mode or stuff like that I suspect that this is exactly the reason why Dell decided not to ship with Ubuntu on this particular machine. I'm not sure that GNOME has support for tablet mode yet; Unity 7 (16.04 LTS) certainly doesn't. > Maybe Ubuntu could have stopped this by detecting compatibility issues between the firmware package and the hardware. Firmware updates come directly from https://fwupd.org/ https://fwupd.org/ I believe. Ubuntu (like other distributions) doesn't have anything to do with distribution and release management of the the firmware blobs themselves; that's done entirely by Dell I believe. > Dell's BIOS definitely should have stopped this by detecting the compatibility issue between its own settings and the firmware package. What exactly do you mean by "brick"? Dell explicitly don't support Ubuntu on this particular machine. If you had been running Windows, would you still be stuck? If not, I don't think you can reasonably blame Dell here. They don't QA with Ubuntu (or any Linux) on this hardware, and you knew this before you purchased.

eli_gottlieb 9y ago
>Ubuntu (like other distributions) doesn't have anything to do with distribution and release management of the the firmware blobs themselves; that's done entirely by Dell I believe. Indeed, and yet here y'all are, saying that if I didn't want a brick, I shouldn't have run Linux. Ubuntu didn't do anything to the hardware, it just queued up a Dell-distributed, Dell-released firmware update to run upon BIOS POST. Since this update was supplied by the manufacturer, I expect that at the very least, it can check for BIOS settings which render the update incompatible, and should most probably just, you know, install itself cleanly. It should never, ever brick the machine, because why in the hell is the manufacturer sending me something that bricks their own hardware? >What exactly do you mean by "brick"? By brick I mean brick. It fails POST and the several input combinations for resetting to a clean BIOS don't work either. Dell is having to send a technician to me to replace the motherboard, after which I can once again figure out the BIOS settings to run Ubuntu cleanly. This doesn't mean that Ubuntu crashes after GRUB loads it. It means the BIOS no longer loads, period, let alone GRUB and Ubuntu. >Dell explicitly don't support Ubuntu on this particular machine. If you had been running Windows, would you still be stuck? If not, I don't think you can reasonably blame Dell here. They don't QA with Ubuntu (or any Linux) on this hardware, and you knew this before you purchased. Bull. They QA their own BIOS and firmware. The whole point of firmware-BIOS-OS separation is that the operating system never even speaks to the BIOS directly. BIOS runs the bootloader, bootloader loads the OS, OS proceeds according to a standard for how PCs are run. What I do to customize the machine is my responsibility, but proprietary updates from the manufacturer are theirs. If I've altered the BIOS settings to run a different operating system, the update needs to detect the altered settings and, if necessary, refuse to run. Then I can get on with my usage of the machine I bought. It's not my job customize their firmware, nor should their firmware updates have compatibility issues that cripple the BIOS, ever, period.

tayo42 9y ago

> The machine also can't wake up from suspend mode, which I suspect is a driver thing. I'm not the only one. I haven't seen anything on the internet about this model. This is driving me insane, feels like im always wasting power.