6 ms·

The level of skew that "free trade" has created is pretty insane here in Europe. Shipping to Berlin is cheaper from China than it is from Prague. But that's not

The level of skew that "free trade" has created is pretty insane here in Europe. Shipping to Berlin is cheaper from China than it is from Prague. But that's not all. If I make an electronic device in Prague, and sell it to someone in Berlin, I am legally required to mark it with my address and a CE label. Regulators can then write to me and demand documentation on the devices safety, and if I don't comply within 8 days, I can be forced to pay a large fine and destroy all European inventory. However, the Chinese manufacturer, can and does, put a fake address on the CE label, never has to go to the trouble to document safety, and has no European inventory that could be destroyed in the case that the EU decides the device is unsafe. Its just plain cheaper, and less risky, to develop and produce a device in China and then ship in in small quantities as demand arises.

icebraining 9y ago
On the other hand, that's exactly why I only buy cheap crap from Chinese online stores, while I spend real money on EU stores, since they provide safety and warranties. I quite like the balance, personally. The shipping rates are certainly weird, and I do think they should be reviewed, although I think the internal rates are too high, but I admittedly don't know the cost structure.
- kogepathic 9y ago
  > although I think the internal rates are too high They would probably be cheaper if they weren't subsidizing postal rates for other countries. I find it amusing when you have a problem on AliExpress and the seller suggests you mail it back to them. Unless the product has a very high value it almost always costs more than the product's value to send it back to China. Luckily AliExpress customer service seems to realize this and will often grant refunds without requiring you to return the product. eBay really sucks on this regard; it's very difficult to get a refund for a defective item without paying handsomely to ship it back.
  - Freak_NL 9y ago
    > I find it amusing when you have a problem on AliExpress and the seller suggests you mail it back to them. Most of the sellers know this and simply ship you a new item or refund you though — at least for comparatively cheap items.
  - hackits 9y ago
    Hint if you check out paypal you can get a free return postage for your item, its just hidden away on the web-site but they offer it.
    - 0care 9y ago
      Is this with paypal everywhere or just through ebay?
      - hackits 9y ago
        Yes (everywhere) not just through ebay, URL (https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/returns https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/returns) Pay with your PayPal account and we can refund your return shipping costs if you need to send anything back – up to $45 per return and 8 returns each year.
- donaltroddyn 9y ago
  The problem is that you don't know who has plugged in a death trap transformer about to explode into flames in the apartment below yours, not to mention the numerous other ways that mains appliances can be unsafely wired.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    I also avoid buying stuff that takes mains voltage. But is the risk that they'll "explode into flames" a real concern? All house fires I seem to read about are a result of other factors (stove burners not closed, heating devices near flammable stuff, etc).
    - donaltroddyn 9y ago
      You're probably right, but I used to buy cheap USB chargers from Amazon and Deal Extreme, and had a couple fail with visible scorching and melted plastic.
bluedino 9y ago
>> I can be forced to pay a large fine and destroy all European inventory We stopped selling in Europe because resellers would place an order, never pay for it, and we couldn't force them to because of some certification we didn't have. Management didn't want to spend $20,000 getting certified to sell in Europe, so we basically bowed out of the market and now miss out in millions in sales.
- pc86 9y ago
  How are you missing out on millions in sales if they never paid? If it was a financial net positive to stay, why did you leave? If it wasn't, you're not actually missing out on anything by not being there. For the record I think a lot of European regulations are needlessly anti-business but this seems like an odd example. If management isn't willing to spend $20k (even on credit at onerous interest) to make millions of dollars, I don't think they'll be around very long.

icebraining 9y ago

On the other hand, that's exactly why I only buy cheap crap from Chinese online stores, while I spend real money on EU stores, since they provide safety and warranties. I quite like the balance, personally. The shipping rates are certainly weird, and I do think they should be reviewed, although I think the internal rates are too high, but I admittedly don't know the cost structure.

kogepathic 9y ago
> although I think the internal rates are too high They would probably be cheaper if they weren't subsidizing postal rates for other countries. I find it amusing when you have a problem on AliExpress and the seller suggests you mail it back to them. Unless the product has a very high value it almost always costs more than the product's value to send it back to China. Luckily AliExpress customer service seems to realize this and will often grant refunds without requiring you to return the product. eBay really sucks on this regard; it's very difficult to get a refund for a defective item without paying handsomely to ship it back.
- Freak_NL 9y ago
  > I find it amusing when you have a problem on AliExpress and the seller suggests you mail it back to them. Most of the sellers know this and simply ship you a new item or refund you though — at least for comparatively cheap items.
- hackits 9y ago
  Hint if you check out paypal you can get a free return postage for your item, its just hidden away on the web-site but they offer it.
  - 0care 9y ago
    Is this with paypal everywhere or just through ebay?
    - hackits 9y ago
      Yes (everywhere) not just through ebay, URL (https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/returns https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/returns) Pay with your PayPal account and we can refund your return shipping costs if you need to send anything back – up to $45 per return and 8 returns each year.
donaltroddyn 9y ago
The problem is that you don't know who has plugged in a death trap transformer about to explode into flames in the apartment below yours, not to mention the numerous other ways that mains appliances can be unsafely wired.
- icebraining 9y ago
  I also avoid buying stuff that takes mains voltage. But is the risk that they'll "explode into flames" a real concern? All house fires I seem to read about are a result of other factors (stove burners not closed, heating devices near flammable stuff, etc).
  - donaltroddyn 9y ago
    You're probably right, but I used to buy cheap USB chargers from Amazon and Deal Extreme, and had a couple fail with visible scorching and melted plastic.

bluedino 9y ago

>> I can be forced to pay a large fine and destroy all European inventory We stopped selling in Europe because resellers would place an order, never pay for it, and we couldn't force them to because of some certification we didn't have. Management didn't want to spend $20,000 getting certified to sell in Europe, so we basically bowed out of the market and now miss out in millions in sales.

pc86 9y ago
How are you missing out on millions in sales if they never paid? If it was a financial net positive to stay, why did you leave? If it wasn't, you're not actually missing out on anything by not being there. For the record I think a lot of European regulations are needlessly anti-business but this seems like an odd example. If management isn't willing to spend $20k (even on credit at onerous interest) to make millions of dollars, I don't think they'll be around very long.