4 ms·

Incorrect, I break arch less times than Ubuntu and I use it daily while I use Ubuntu casually

majewsky 9y ago
Arch's KISS attitude is really helpful for that. Whenever I have to deal with a Debian/Ubuntu system, I'm sort of weary of "apt install"ing any daemons because of the autoconfigure magic that's going on in dpkg. With Arch, installing a package just unpacks the package files and runs a few innocuous post-install hooks, mostly to rebuild indexes (mandb, fontconfig, etc.) and compile DKMS-based kernel modules. But nothing potentially destructive like `systemctl start postfix`. Also, it installs exactly what you want, instead of dozens of tangentially-related "suggested packages". If you `apt install rsyslog`, it pulls in an entire MTA because somewhere deep in rsyslog, there is an option that might send emails, so Debian in its unending wisdom determines that you MUST HAVE an MTA beyond this point. In Arch, `pacman -S rsyslog` installs just rsyslog and a few required shared libraries.
- eeZah7Ux 9y ago
  There is no "autoconfigure magic". Daemons install standard configuration files and start by default. Autostart can be disabled, that's all.
- icebraining 9y ago
  Also, it installs exactly what you want, instead of dozens of tangentially-related "suggested packages". So does Debian, if that's what you tell it you want (either on the config file or as a CLI argument). Even without that, while it may suggest a full MTA by default, you can ask it for another solution and it'll suggest a simple mailer (like bsd-mailx). I don't dispute that Arch's defaults guide you to a simpler system, but it's not really hard to start from Debian netinstall and add just what you need, package by package.
  - majewsky 9y ago
    > you can ask it for another solution and it'll suggest a simple mailer Exactly. The correct solution for me is "no mailer at all".
    - icebraining 9y ago
      Right, so tell it not to install the recommended packages, like I said.
- kccqzy 9y ago
  Suggested packages are off by default. You are talking about recommended packages which can be turned off via --no-install-recommends.

Arch's KISS attitude is really helpful for that. Whenever I have to deal with a Debian/Ubuntu system, I'm sort of weary of "apt install"ing any daemons because of the autoconfigure magic that's going on in dpkg. With Arch, installing a package just unpacks the package files and runs a few innocuous post-install hooks, mostly to rebuild indexes (mandb, fontconfig, etc.) and compile DKMS-based kernel modules. But nothing potentially destructive like `systemctl start postfix`. Also, it installs exactly what you want, instead of dozens of tangentially-related "suggested packages". If you `apt install rsyslog`, it pulls in an entire MTA because somewhere deep in rsyslog, there is an option that might send emails, so Debian in its unending wisdom determines that you MUST HAVE an MTA beyond this point. In Arch, `pacman -S rsyslog` installs just rsyslog and a few required shared libraries.

eeZah7Ux 9y ago
There is no "autoconfigure magic". Daemons install standard configuration files and start by default. Autostart can be disabled, that's all.
icebraining 9y ago
Also, it installs exactly what you want, instead of dozens of tangentially-related "suggested packages". So does Debian, if that's what you tell it you want (either on the config file or as a CLI argument). Even without that, while it may suggest a full MTA by default, you can ask it for another solution and it'll suggest a simple mailer (like bsd-mailx). I don't dispute that Arch's defaults guide you to a simpler system, but it's not really hard to start from Debian netinstall and add just what you need, package by package.
- majewsky 9y ago
  > you can ask it for another solution and it'll suggest a simple mailer Exactly. The correct solution for me is "no mailer at all".
  - icebraining 9y ago
    Right, so tell it not to install the recommended packages, like I said.
kccqzy 9y ago
Suggested packages are off by default. You are talking about recommended packages which can be turned off via --no-install-recommends.