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Calm down. I'll happily provide proof, I simply didn't want to overload my initial response with quotes and links: > Harvard political scientist Robert Putnam

Calm down. I'll happily provide proof, I simply didn't want to overload my initial response with quotes and links: > Harvard political scientist Robert Putnam -- famous for "Bowling Alone," his 2000 book on declining civic engagement -- has found that the greater the diversity in a community, the fewer people vote and the less they volunteer, the less they give to charity and work on community projects. In the most diverse communities, neighbors trust one another about half as much as they do in the most homogenous settings. The study, the largest ever on civic engagement in America, found that virtually all measures of civic health are lower in more diverse settings. "The extent of the effect is shocking," says Scott Page, a University of Michigan political scientist. http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/ http://archive.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/...

VeejayRampay 9y ago
You should consider reading about the rest of the research on the matter, or the words of Putnam himself: http://www.chronicle.com/blogs/percolator/robert-putnam-says-his-research-was-twisted/30357 http://www.chronicle.com/blogs/percolator/robert-putnam-says... One study isn't enough in isolation. Reproduction, vetting, counter-studies, discussion and scientific engagement is what matters on the long run.
- factsaresacred 9y ago
  I have read that. He concedes the study is valid and the problems real and difficult. Then he adds his own opinion that nevertheless it's worth it. > In the short term, he writes, there are clearly challenges, but over the long haul, he argues that diversity has a range of benefits for a society, and that the fragmentation and distrust can be overcome. It’s not an easy process, but in the end it’s “well worth the effort.” “well worth the effort”. That's pretty subjective. I'm sure many would like to avoid "fragmentation and distrust" in the first place. > One study isn't enough by itself. There are many similar studies: "A higher degree of ethnic diversity is associated with a higher incidence of civil conflict" - https://www.cgdev.org/doc/events/02.09.07/Matuszeski-JMP.pdf https://www.cgdev.org/doc/events/02.09.07/Matuszeski-JMP.pdf I mean, this stuff is intuitive for anybody with a sense of history. To be clear I'm not arguing against diversity per se. I raise these points to encourage us (as a society) to discuss - and not emote - these issues honestly.
  - VeejayRampay 9y ago
    > I mean, this stuff is intuitive for anybody with a sense of history Intuitive has nothing to do with fact, plenty of factors might heavily influence what one considers "intuitive". For a lot of people the necessity of the death penalty is "intuitive", yet for many societies, it's an absolute no-brainer that such practices are medieval. So again, unless there is a corpus of studies, all pointing in the same direction, with all the environmental factors completely eliminated using double-blind or other proper scientific methods, we cannot really conclude anything.
    - factsaresacred 9y ago
      > We cannot really conclude anything. Great! So when will we stop parading this nonsensical "diversity is our strength" mantra, or at least stop stigmatizing those that point out - as you have - that we cannot really conclude anything? It has as much merit - and perhaps less, given the studies - as saying "diversity is not our strength". You see the issue now?
      - sillysaurus3 9y ago
        When taking a controversial side, it's important to be calm and make cogent arguments. It's hard. Especially when it feels like people are going out of their way to misinterpret or frame you. But it's worth it.
    - coldtea 9y ago
      >Intuitive has nothing to do with fact, Studies in soft sciences have even less to do with fact too -- it's mostly the fads of the day presented as fact.
    - Chris2048 9y ago
      This is an unfalsifiable position to take. So long as your opinion isn't common, you can claim this as proof that diverse populations lack the power to promote it.
  - vertex-four 9y ago
timthelion 9y ago
Not a mod, but please don't tell people to "calm down" it is rude and condescending and adds nothing to the conversation.

VeejayRampay 9y ago

You should consider reading about the rest of the research on the matter, or the words of Putnam himself: http://www.chronicle.com/blogs/percolator/robert-putnam-says-his-research-was-twisted/30357 http://www.chronicle.com/blogs/percolator/robert-putnam-says... One study isn't enough in isolation. Reproduction, vetting, counter-studies, discussion and scientific engagement is what matters on the long run.

factsaresacred 9y ago
I have read that. He concedes the study is valid and the problems real and difficult. Then he adds his own opinion that nevertheless it's worth it. > In the short term, he writes, there are clearly challenges, but over the long haul, he argues that diversity has a range of benefits for a society, and that the fragmentation and distrust can be overcome. It’s not an easy process, but in the end it’s “well worth the effort.” “well worth the effort”. That's pretty subjective. I'm sure many would like to avoid "fragmentation and distrust" in the first place. > One study isn't enough by itself. There are many similar studies: "A higher degree of ethnic diversity is associated with a higher incidence of civil conflict" - https://www.cgdev.org/doc/events/02.09.07/Matuszeski-JMP.pdf https://www.cgdev.org/doc/events/02.09.07/Matuszeski-JMP.pdf I mean, this stuff is intuitive for anybody with a sense of history. To be clear I'm not arguing against diversity per se. I raise these points to encourage us (as a society) to discuss - and not emote - these issues honestly.
- VeejayRampay 9y ago
  > I mean, this stuff is intuitive for anybody with a sense of history Intuitive has nothing to do with fact, plenty of factors might heavily influence what one considers "intuitive". For a lot of people the necessity of the death penalty is "intuitive", yet for many societies, it's an absolute no-brainer that such practices are medieval. So again, unless there is a corpus of studies, all pointing in the same direction, with all the environmental factors completely eliminated using double-blind or other proper scientific methods, we cannot really conclude anything.
  - factsaresacred 9y ago
    > We cannot really conclude anything. Great! So when will we stop parading this nonsensical "diversity is our strength" mantra, or at least stop stigmatizing those that point out - as you have - that we cannot really conclude anything? It has as much merit - and perhaps less, given the studies - as saying "diversity is not our strength". You see the issue now?
    - sillysaurus3 9y ago
      When taking a controversial side, it's important to be calm and make cogent arguments. It's hard. Especially when it feels like people are going out of their way to misinterpret or frame you. But it's worth it.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >Intuitive has nothing to do with fact, Studies in soft sciences have even less to do with fact too -- it's mostly the fads of the day presented as fact.
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    This is an unfalsifiable position to take. So long as your opinion isn't common, you can claim this as proof that diverse populations lack the power to promote it.
- vertex-four 9y ago

timthelion 9y ago

Not a mod, but please don't tell people to "calm down" it is rude and condescending and adds nothing to the conversation.