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As a 20 year Linux user I really appreciate Dells support in proving the market exists. This improved support across all manufacturers. I've recently acquired

As a 20 year Linux user I really appreciate Dells support in proving the market exists. This improved support across all manufacturers. I've recently acquired a HP Envy 13 2017 laptop with Windows preinstalled. I've really wanted to try Windows out, but after installing Google Chrome and Docker (1hr after starting it up) it stopped working - windows boot up into a blank black screen. In a hurry I've downloaded Ubuntu 17.10, clicked yes and I had a working OS in 15 minutes time. With everything (suspend, broadcom card, USBC video,...) working out of the box. Super impressed. If you're a developer there's no UX reason to go Windows anymore.

maccard 9y ago
I’ve a dual boot set up on one of my machines with Ubuntu 17.04. I’m consistently having Ethernet issues related to having two network cards, and the multi monitor support is lacking. I can’t use my triple monitor setup, and if I forget to disconnect my third monitor I have to reboot with only one monitor attached to get it work. Meanwhile, on the same machine, windows handles it in its stride. There’s still some improvements to be made
- reacweb 9y ago
  ethernet ? It is the most stable part of Linux since 25 years. Do you have a link to the bug report ?
  - mamon 9y ago
    It's funny that you say that, because I'm constantly having problems with e1000e driver on my Intel NUC. Ethernet card stops working and dmesg shows "hardware unit hung" message. Tried to upgrade driver to latest version, compiled from sources - didn't fix it.
  - maccard 9y ago
    I don’t, because I haven’t even investigated the issue myself. I get times where I can’t see the device, and have no connectivity. My solution: use windows.
- xab9 9y ago
  Sometimes linux works fine, sometimes it doesn't and there will always be room for improvements. Fortunately I have three laptops, one for Win10, one for Arch and another for OSX, all have their quirks (but I must admit, arch linux is my preferred one:)).
- babuskov 9y ago
  > windows handles it in its stride Windows has serious bugs with multiple monitors as well. I switch the second monitor often (usually once or twice a day) and often it would have problems like blank screen on one (or sometimes two) monitors, whole system locking up, HDMI sound device not showing up so I have to play sound over laptop speakers instead of monitor/TV speakers, etc. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. I tried using Linux, Windows and Mac and they all have bugs regarding multiple monitor setup. If everything works smooth for you, you're just lucky that your usage doesn't fall into "corner cases".
  - dkersten 9y ago
    In my personal anecdotal experience, Mac's multi-monitor support is the worst of the three (and I say that as a currently full-time and otherwise happy Mac user).
- chopin 9y ago
  I am running a 4 monitor setup with Linux Mint 18.2 (Cinnamon) just fine. I set it up two weeks ago and so far I am impressed how easy it was. However, prior to this setup I had Win 7 on the machine with no issues either.
- iam-TJ 9y ago
  I do a lot of support on IRC Freenode #linux and #ubuntu and we get a lot of this kind of report. We see a 90% success rate with a simple-to-apply workaround. This is so common I wrote an article and fix [0] for it containing 4 shell commands that we refer users to whenever we get these 'works OK in Windows but not in Linux' type of reports. By far the biggest cause of these hardware issues relating to power (suspend/resume, power-states, platform device enablement, ports - including GPU outputs) not working correctly is not caused by Linux but by the PC firmware itself and is down to the manufacturers. In short - manufacturers customise the ACPI (Advanced Configuration and Power Interface) DSDT (Differentiated System Description Table) via it's _OSI() method to recognise only Microsoft Windows OSs and enable functionality based on the Windows version. The version strings are of the form "Windows 2009" "Windows 2015" etc., where the later the year the more functionality is enabled. This is a total misuse of the purpose of _OSI but almost all manufacturers are doing this now. As a result when Linux is the OS often only a minimal or incomplete set of functionality is enabled which causes all sorts of problems. For a long time Linux has had code to report itself as various Windows versions to try to solve the worst of these but in many cases unless it claims to be the exact 'best' Windows version for each model/DSDT there will still be problems. From silly things like some devices not working if the PC starts on battery (but fine starting on AC) - recently saw this was the cause of an external HDMI port not being enabled - through not handling power-state switching correctly and thus draining the battery rapidly, to suspend/resume/shutdown freezes and other symptoms. The solution has frequently been to set the OSI string to match the most recent Windows version the PC's ACPI DSDT recognises, on the basis that the most recent is likely to enable the most functionality, using the DSDT OSI string via kernel command-line acpi_osi="...". Checking the supported OSI version strings is quite easy from Linux: sudo strings /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/DSDT | grep -i windows | sort You'll get a sorted list with the most recent version generally at the end. E.g: Microsoft Windows Microsoft Windows NT Microsoft WindowsME: Millennium Edition Windows 2001 Windows 2006 Windows 2009 Windows 2012 Windows 2015 Adding the most recent version to the kernel command-line, either via the boot-menu at start-up to test it, but usually permanently via GRUB, in this form: acpi_osi=! "acpi_osi=Windows XXXX" where XXXX is the latest year reported. The initial =! tells Linux not to offer any of it's hard-coded version strings via OSI - this guarantees the one that gets used is the one specified. On most GRUB-based systems this is done by editing /etc/default/grub and adding the options into the GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX variable (there may be other kernel options there too) thus: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="acpi_osi=! \"acpi_osi=Windows XXXX\"" (note: the two \" are required to ensure the double-quote gets inserted onto the kernel command line surrounding the space in the version string) then: sudo update-grub Reboot and test. [0] http://iam.tj/prototype/enhancements/Windows-acpi_osi.html http://iam.tj/prototype/enhancements/Windows-acpi_osi.html
- InternetOfStuff 9y ago
  Reverse anecdote: I can get my three monitors to work under Linux (trivially, actually), but I can't under Windows, and not for a lack of trying. Under Windows I can decide which one gets turned off, but running all three is somehow denied. This, of course, with recent drivers straight from the manufacturer (AMD). Baffling.
pjmlp 9y ago
> If you're a developer there's no UX reason to go Windows anymore. I am a developer serving Windows customers, that rely on native UI/UX for their workflows.
- dkersten 9y ago
  Obviously if you're developing primarily for Windows, you're going to need to run Windows. I don't think that's what the person you're replying to meant by that at all, but rather that the Windows UX doesn't buy you, as the user of the OS, anything that Linux doesn't.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    Sure it does, proper GPU acceleration, hybrid graphics support and hibernation that actually works, and UI/UX tooling resembling Xerox PARC way of computing, only beaten by macOS. Not everyone wants to replicate a PDP-11.
    - zdkl 9y ago
      Honestly, tooling on windows is in the range [complicated-unusable]. Higher order abstractions and OS specific optimisations just seem to get in the way when I'm developping. I for one do not feel windows has a good story if you're developping anything you don't use VS for.
      - pjmlp 9y ago
        I don't feel being stuck with a PDP-11 user model is any better. A world where GNOME and KDE developers get bashed upon, when trying to bring UI/UX into a modern world.
    - Retric 9y ago
      I swapped back and forth a few times and Linux worked for all of that stuff 5 years ago. I do .Net development so I tend to stick with windows. But, from a pure user standpoint Linux is more user friendly on compatible hardware.
chx 9y ago
As another 20+ (24 actually, 0.99pl15) Linux user let me counter: with the Linux subsystem for Windows there's no reason to wrestle with Linux any more. While Linux certainly works on laptops it doesn't work well. Wifi and battery life are absymal and for me seemingly every other update either breaks the printer half or the scanner half of the MFC device (and if not, then it's time for another bluetooth breakage, you can search Arch forums on how many times BT broke on me). Let's not even mention that I simply can't log into one of clients VPN network as F5 doesn't seem to have a Linux client capable of web login (previously it was a Firefox extension but of course that capability needed to be obsoleted). So now I need to use my Android phone to VPN in and tether it... madness. For many years (roughly since systemd) I hoped there's a kind of "modern Linux handbook" especially when people come up with solutions to problems seemingly totally out of nowhere but turns out, there's nothing. Some people have knowledge of narrow areas but the entire modern Linux is a frighteningly complex monster. And when you realize your fractions of knowledge makes you one of the experts, that's even worse: when I ask about DisplayLink in Linux, I am redirected to the relevant Arch Wiki page where the meat of the page was written by me years ago... I set up Windows 10 to my taste https://github.com/chx/chx.github.io/wiki/How-I-set-up-my-Windows-10-(coming-from-Linux) https://github.com/chx/chx.github.io/wiki/How-I-set-up-my-Wi... and it's a better world now. Drivers and GUI programs are running in Windows, daemons and CLI tools are running in Linux, switching to a brief game session is trivial.
- babuskov 9y ago
  > you can search Arch Isn't Arch specifically for users who don't mind things breaking and going deep into internals to fix it?
  - smcl 9y ago
    Correct but that has caused their wiki to be one of the better places to find out how to setup and configure services, hardware, etc even if you have to do a little tweaking to the instructions for your own distribution
  - jorgemf 9y ago
    Incorrect, I break arch less times than Ubuntu and I use it daily while I use Ubuntu casually
jmkni 9y ago
Windows has gotten a lot better, but the rules regarding new computers hasn't changed in the past 30 years, you still need to wipe the hard drive and install it yourself from scratch, and then spend a little time disabling the ads, bing crap, telemetry, etc. Once you do, it's rock solid, but it should be OOTB and it annoys me that it isn't. It leaves those not familiar with Windows with a bad first impression, and those tech savvy enough to install Linux just don't come back.
- Kipters 9y ago
  There's an option in Windows Defender settings that automatically wipes the hard drive and reinstalls from scratch, without the manufacturer's bloatware
  - vini 9y ago
    Tried this on a Lenovo notebook and it will reinstall the Lenovo bloatware anyways. I think this restore the initial windows image state, but the image that came in the notebook is customized by Lenovo.
    - ClassyJacket 9y ago
      I believe it's even more sinister than that. I recall reading about a feature of Windows 10 where it will automatically install OEM bloatware from separate storage on the board, even if you install from a generic Window disk/USB. I'm trying to find a source. Edit: I cannot find a source, so take this with a grain of salt, however I do clearly remember reading it.
      - g_p 9y ago
        I believe the one you're referring to is the "Windows Platform Binary Table (WPBT)" feature, which has a slot in UEFI where an exe can be put, which is run by Windows during an install. Couple of refs for anyone interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10039870 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10039870 https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=29544745#p29544745 https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=29544745#p2954...
sandGorgon 9y ago
I would also recommend Fedora 27. I have seldom seen an OS as polished as that. Holds its own versus OSX.
- chupasaurus 9y ago
  Big note: Fedora is a kinda beta branch of RHEL with experimental features and could have breaking changes.
  - smcl 9y ago
    I think RHEL is for solid long-term Enterprise-level support, so even though its more experimental than that, it’s still pretty solid IME
  - vetinari 9y ago
    Fedora is not kinda beta branch of RHEL. Fedora is a fast-moving distribution, similar to non-LTS Ubuntu. RHEL is a long-term supported distribution (way longer than LTS Ubuntu). It is for machines that you want to set up and forget about their existence. The difference is in target audience and the intent, what their machines have to do. More proper designation would be, that RHEL is a fork of Fedora, that is being supported long-term.
    - baldfat 9y ago
      > Fedora is not kinda beta branch of RHEL. I thought maybe Redhat changed their stance on Fedora and read from Redhat's page and well it is 100% a beta testing ground for RHEL. "The size and expertise of the Fedora community make Fedora an ideal incubator and proving ground for features that eventually get incorporated into Red Hat Enterprise Linux. To meet the quality and reliability requirements that make Red Hat Enterprise Linux the choice for mission-critical applications, Red Hat puts Red Hat Enterprise Linux through its own set of tests and quality assurance (QA) processes that are separate and distinct from those of Fedora." https://www.redhat.com/en/technologies/linux-platforms/articles/relationship-between-fedora-and-rhel https://www.redhat.com/en/technologies/linux-platforms/artic...
ekianjo 9y ago
Solus is a very solid distro as well, well worth trying out.
fsloth 9y ago
"If you're a developer there's no UX reason to go Windows anymore." 'Developer' is a pretty encompassing term and I wouldn't presume to know what requirements people have. I would claim that software that is available only for Os X or windows natively is still a pretty strong UX reason. Or that the deployed software runs only on windows. etc. These constraints kick into place if we take "UX" to include the total behaviour of the man-machine-environment system and not just installing Linux and the apt-gettable software.
bluedino 9y ago
>> If you're a developer there's no UX reason to go Windows anymore. If you weren't a Windows developer, was there ever? We've been using Lenovo laptops for web development on Linux with no issues for the last 10 years, and I was using them personally for another 5+ years before that.
- yazan94 9y ago
  Are Mono and .Net Core on Linux as good as on Windows? If they are, as a developer, there isn't much reason to go with Windows
  - jenscow 9y ago
    It depends on how much you like VS.
    - fgonzag 9y ago
      I have actually moved to vscode and I love it so far. I still can't move to Linux since I need visual studio for some older projects, but I hope I'll be able to make the switch in the future. In the mean time vscode + windows subsystem for Linux has been extremely usable for me, no more virtual machines
      - thomastjeffery 9y ago
        You don't have to switch. You can dual-boot. GParted or most distro's installers will resize your windows partition, just don't forget to disable fastboot in windows first. You can run Linux in a VM. Granted, this means you can't really use a good tiling window manager, which is one of my main reasons for not using Windows. You can run Windows in a VM. Take a look at Qubes to see just how integrated this can be.
        fgonzag 9y ago
        I've run dual boot systems before. Not a fan of having to reboot to switch basically between programs. Thats why I used a Virtual machine and now I use Windows Subsystem for Linux. Once we move to fully .net core shop, I'll be making the move to linux completely.
bitexploder 9y ago
Agreed. One laptop worth investigating that I haven't seen anyone discussing in this thread is the Precision 7520. It is the same chassis as the XPS 15" laptop, but you can configure it with some more adult options. It is 2017 and I finally own a laptop with 32GiB of ECC(!) RAM. That is pretty damn cool. Allow me to roll out my specs, just cause I love this laptop: * Quad Core Xeon (1505M) * Discrete GPU with acceptable gaming performance and great at cracking passwords in a pinch * 32 GiB of ECC RAM * 1920x1080 15.6" (144ppi) display with no mic or web cam * An actually decent keyboard * Touchpad that is actually nice * So many ports. All the ports. The best ports (4 USB-3, 1 USB-C, HDMI, mini DP, Ethernet, SD Card slot, Smartcard Slot) * For the cost of equivalent Applecare, someone will show up to my house same day and fix this beast if something breaks * Expandable and replacement storage and memory Tell me all those ports don't make you a little jealous if you are using a Macbook, I won't believe you ;). It does come at he cost of this laptop being a bit chunky, so it won't be for everyone. You can also get it with a HiDPI display, but I actually prefer things right in this 120-144ppi range more than Retina. It is just a great computing package. End of story. I also still love my 2013 MBP. It is also a beautiful machine for its own reasons, so I am no Dell / Linux fanperson, but I have a bit of a crush on this laptop as I just got it about a month ago :)
- purrcat259 9y ago
  What laptop make and model is this please? Sounds great. Is the keyboard backlit?
  - cpburns2009 9y ago
    > One laptop worth investigating that I haven't seen anyone discussing in this thread is the Precision 7520. He has a Dell Precision 7520. If you customize the model on the Dell website, there's a backlit keyboard option.
    - bitexploder 9y ago
      ^^^^ See above :) Just make sure anyone seriously considers this takes a long hard look at hte physical dimensions and weight. It is not a sleek or light machine :)

maccard 9y ago

I’ve a dual boot set up on one of my machines with Ubuntu 17.04. I’m consistently having Ethernet issues related to having two network cards, and the multi monitor support is lacking. I can’t use my triple monitor setup, and if I forget to disconnect my third monitor I have to reboot with only one monitor attached to get it work. Meanwhile, on the same machine, windows handles it in its stride. There’s still some improvements to be made

reacweb 9y ago
ethernet ? It is the most stable part of Linux since 25 years. Do you have a link to the bug report ?
- mamon 9y ago
  It's funny that you say that, because I'm constantly having problems with e1000e driver on my Intel NUC. Ethernet card stops working and dmesg shows "hardware unit hung" message. Tried to upgrade driver to latest version, compiled from sources - didn't fix it.
- maccard 9y ago
  I don’t, because I haven’t even investigated the issue myself. I get times where I can’t see the device, and have no connectivity. My solution: use windows.
xab9 9y ago
Sometimes linux works fine, sometimes it doesn't and there will always be room for improvements. Fortunately I have three laptops, one for Win10, one for Arch and another for OSX, all have their quirks (but I must admit, arch linux is my preferred one:)).
babuskov 9y ago
> windows handles it in its stride Windows has serious bugs with multiple monitors as well. I switch the second monitor often (usually once or twice a day) and often it would have problems like blank screen on one (or sometimes two) monitors, whole system locking up, HDMI sound device not showing up so I have to play sound over laptop speakers instead of monitor/TV speakers, etc. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. I tried using Linux, Windows and Mac and they all have bugs regarding multiple monitor setup. If everything works smooth for you, you're just lucky that your usage doesn't fall into "corner cases".
- dkersten 9y ago
  In my personal anecdotal experience, Mac's multi-monitor support is the worst of the three (and I say that as a currently full-time and otherwise happy Mac user).
chopin 9y ago
I am running a 4 monitor setup with Linux Mint 18.2 (Cinnamon) just fine. I set it up two weeks ago and so far I am impressed how easy it was. However, prior to this setup I had Win 7 on the machine with no issues either.
iam-TJ 9y ago
I do a lot of support on IRC Freenode #linux and #ubuntu and we get a lot of this kind of report. We see a 90% success rate with a simple-to-apply workaround. This is so common I wrote an article and fix [0] for it containing 4 shell commands that we refer users to whenever we get these 'works OK in Windows but not in Linux' type of reports. By far the biggest cause of these hardware issues relating to power (suspend/resume, power-states, platform device enablement, ports - including GPU outputs) not working correctly is not caused by Linux but by the PC firmware itself and is down to the manufacturers. In short - manufacturers customise the ACPI (Advanced Configuration and Power Interface) DSDT (Differentiated System Description Table) via it's _OSI() method to recognise only Microsoft Windows OSs and enable functionality based on the Windows version. The version strings are of the form "Windows 2009" "Windows 2015" etc., where the later the year the more functionality is enabled. This is a total misuse of the purpose of _OSI but almost all manufacturers are doing this now. As a result when Linux is the OS often only a minimal or incomplete set of functionality is enabled which causes all sorts of problems. For a long time Linux has had code to report itself as various Windows versions to try to solve the worst of these but in many cases unless it claims to be the exact 'best' Windows version for each model/DSDT there will still be problems. From silly things like some devices not working if the PC starts on battery (but fine starting on AC) - recently saw this was the cause of an external HDMI port not being enabled - through not handling power-state switching correctly and thus draining the battery rapidly, to suspend/resume/shutdown freezes and other symptoms. The solution has frequently been to set the OSI string to match the most recent Windows version the PC's ACPI DSDT recognises, on the basis that the most recent is likely to enable the most functionality, using the DSDT OSI string via kernel command-line acpi_osi="...". Checking the supported OSI version strings is quite easy from Linux: sudo strings /sys/firmware/acpi/tables/DSDT | grep -i windows | sort You'll get a sorted list with the most recent version generally at the end. E.g: Microsoft Windows Microsoft Windows NT Microsoft WindowsME: Millennium Edition Windows 2001 Windows 2006 Windows 2009 Windows 2012 Windows 2015 Adding the most recent version to the kernel command-line, either via the boot-menu at start-up to test it, but usually permanently via GRUB, in this form: acpi_osi=! "acpi_osi=Windows XXXX" where XXXX is the latest year reported. The initial =! tells Linux not to offer any of it's hard-coded version strings via OSI - this guarantees the one that gets used is the one specified. On most GRUB-based systems this is done by editing /etc/default/grub and adding the options into the GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX variable (there may be other kernel options there too) thus: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX="acpi_osi=! \"acpi_osi=Windows XXXX\"" (note: the two \" are required to ensure the double-quote gets inserted onto the kernel command line surrounding the space in the version string) then: sudo update-grub Reboot and test. [0] http://iam.tj/prototype/enhancements/Windows-acpi_osi.html http://iam.tj/prototype/enhancements/Windows-acpi_osi.html
InternetOfStuff 9y ago
Reverse anecdote: I can get my three monitors to work under Linux (trivially, actually), but I can't under Windows, and not for a lack of trying. Under Windows I can decide which one gets turned off, but running all three is somehow denied. This, of course, with recent drivers straight from the manufacturer (AMD). Baffling.

pjmlp 9y ago

> If you're a developer there's no UX reason to go Windows anymore. I am a developer serving Windows customers, that rely on native UI/UX for their workflows.

dkersten 9y ago
Obviously if you're developing primarily for Windows, you're going to need to run Windows. I don't think that's what the person you're replying to meant by that at all, but rather that the Windows UX doesn't buy you, as the user of the OS, anything that Linux doesn't.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  Sure it does, proper GPU acceleration, hybrid graphics support and hibernation that actually works, and UI/UX tooling resembling Xerox PARC way of computing, only beaten by macOS. Not everyone wants to replicate a PDP-11.
  - zdkl 9y ago
    Honestly, tooling on windows is in the range [complicated-unusable]. Higher order abstractions and OS specific optimisations just seem to get in the way when I'm developping. I for one do not feel windows has a good story if you're developping anything you don't use VS for.
    - pjmlp 9y ago
      I don't feel being stuck with a PDP-11 user model is any better. A world where GNOME and KDE developers get bashed upon, when trying to bring UI/UX into a modern world.
  - Retric 9y ago
    I swapped back and forth a few times and Linux worked for all of that stuff 5 years ago. I do .Net development so I tend to stick with windows. But, from a pure user standpoint Linux is more user friendly on compatible hardware.

chx 9y ago

As another 20+ (24 actually, 0.99pl15) Linux user let me counter: with the Linux subsystem for Windows there's no reason to wrestle with Linux any more. While Linux certainly works on laptops it doesn't work well. Wifi and battery life are absymal and for me seemingly every other update either breaks the printer half or the scanner half of the MFC device (and if not, then it's time for another bluetooth breakage, you can search Arch forums on how many times BT broke on me). Let's not even mention that I simply can't log into one of clients VPN network as F5 doesn't seem to have a Linux client capable of web login (previously it was a Firefox extension but of course that capability needed to be obsoleted). So now I need to use my Android phone to VPN in and tether it... madness. For many years (roughly since systemd) I hoped there's a kind of "modern Linux handbook" especially when people come up with solutions to problems seemingly totally out of nowhere but turns out, there's nothing. Some people have knowledge of narrow areas but the entire modern Linux is a frighteningly complex monster. And when you realize your fractions of knowledge makes you one of the experts, that's even worse: when I ask about DisplayLink in Linux, I am redirected to the relevant Arch Wiki page where the meat of the page was written by me years ago... I set up Windows 10 to my taste https://github.com/chx/chx.github.io/wiki/How-I-set-up-my-Windows-10-(coming-from-Linux) https://github.com/chx/chx.github.io/wiki/How-I-set-up-my-Wi... and it's a better world now. Drivers and GUI programs are running in Windows, daemons and CLI tools are running in Linux, switching to a brief game session is trivial.

babuskov 9y ago
> you can search Arch Isn't Arch specifically for users who don't mind things breaking and going deep into internals to fix it?
- smcl 9y ago
  Correct but that has caused their wiki to be one of the better places to find out how to setup and configure services, hardware, etc even if you have to do a little tweaking to the instructions for your own distribution
- jorgemf 9y ago
  Incorrect, I break arch less times than Ubuntu and I use it daily while I use Ubuntu casually

jmkni 9y ago

Windows has gotten a lot better, but the rules regarding new computers hasn't changed in the past 30 years, you still need to wipe the hard drive and install it yourself from scratch, and then spend a little time disabling the ads, bing crap, telemetry, etc. Once you do, it's rock solid, but it should be OOTB and it annoys me that it isn't. It leaves those not familiar with Windows with a bad first impression, and those tech savvy enough to install Linux just don't come back.

Kipters 9y ago
There's an option in Windows Defender settings that automatically wipes the hard drive and reinstalls from scratch, without the manufacturer's bloatware
- vini 9y ago
  Tried this on a Lenovo notebook and it will reinstall the Lenovo bloatware anyways. I think this restore the initial windows image state, but the image that came in the notebook is customized by Lenovo.
  - ClassyJacket 9y ago
    I believe it's even more sinister than that. I recall reading about a feature of Windows 10 where it will automatically install OEM bloatware from separate storage on the board, even if you install from a generic Window disk/USB. I'm trying to find a source. Edit: I cannot find a source, so take this with a grain of salt, however I do clearly remember reading it.
    - g_p 9y ago
      I believe the one you're referring to is the "Windows Platform Binary Table (WPBT)" feature, which has a slot in UEFI where an exe can be put, which is run by Windows during an install. Couple of refs for anyone interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10039870 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10039870 https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=29544745#p29544745 https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?p=29544745#p2954...

sandGorgon 9y ago

I would also recommend Fedora 27. I have seldom seen an OS as polished as that. Holds its own versus OSX.

chupasaurus 9y ago
Big note: Fedora is a kinda beta branch of RHEL with experimental features and could have breaking changes.
- smcl 9y ago
  I think RHEL is for solid long-term Enterprise-level support, so even though its more experimental than that, it’s still pretty solid IME
- vetinari 9y ago
  Fedora is not kinda beta branch of RHEL. Fedora is a fast-moving distribution, similar to non-LTS Ubuntu. RHEL is a long-term supported distribution (way longer than LTS Ubuntu). It is for machines that you want to set up and forget about their existence. The difference is in target audience and the intent, what their machines have to do. More proper designation would be, that RHEL is a fork of Fedora, that is being supported long-term.
  - baldfat 9y ago
    > Fedora is not kinda beta branch of RHEL. I thought maybe Redhat changed their stance on Fedora and read from Redhat's page and well it is 100% a beta testing ground for RHEL. "The size and expertise of the Fedora community make Fedora an ideal incubator and proving ground for features that eventually get incorporated into Red Hat Enterprise Linux. To meet the quality and reliability requirements that make Red Hat Enterprise Linux the choice for mission-critical applications, Red Hat puts Red Hat Enterprise Linux through its own set of tests and quality assurance (QA) processes that are separate and distinct from those of Fedora." https://www.redhat.com/en/technologies/linux-platforms/articles/relationship-between-fedora-and-rhel https://www.redhat.com/en/technologies/linux-platforms/artic...

ekianjo 9y ago

Solus is a very solid distro as well, well worth trying out.

fsloth 9y ago

"If you're a developer there's no UX reason to go Windows anymore." 'Developer' is a pretty encompassing term and I wouldn't presume to know what requirements people have. I would claim that software that is available only for Os X or windows natively is still a pretty strong UX reason. Or that the deployed software runs only on windows. etc. These constraints kick into place if we take "UX" to include the total behaviour of the man-machine-environment system and not just installing Linux and the apt-gettable software.

bluedino 9y ago

>> If you're a developer there's no UX reason to go Windows anymore. If you weren't a Windows developer, was there ever? We've been using Lenovo laptops for web development on Linux with no issues for the last 10 years, and I was using them personally for another 5+ years before that.

yazan94 9y ago
Are Mono and .Net Core on Linux as good as on Windows? If they are, as a developer, there isn't much reason to go with Windows
- jenscow 9y ago
  It depends on how much you like VS.
  - fgonzag 9y ago
    I have actually moved to vscode and I love it so far. I still can't move to Linux since I need visual studio for some older projects, but I hope I'll be able to make the switch in the future. In the mean time vscode + windows subsystem for Linux has been extremely usable for me, no more virtual machines
    - thomastjeffery 9y ago
      You don't have to switch. You can dual-boot. GParted or most distro's installers will resize your windows partition, just don't forget to disable fastboot in windows first. You can run Linux in a VM. Granted, this means you can't really use a good tiling window manager, which is one of my main reasons for not using Windows. You can run Windows in a VM. Take a look at Qubes to see just how integrated this can be.
      - fgonzag 9y ago
        I've run dual boot systems before. Not a fan of having to reboot to switch basically between programs. Thats why I used a Virtual machine and now I use Windows Subsystem for Linux. Once we move to fully .net core shop, I'll be making the move to linux completely.

bitexploder 9y ago

Agreed. One laptop worth investigating that I haven't seen anyone discussing in this thread is the Precision 7520. It is the same chassis as the XPS 15" laptop, but you can configure it with some more adult options. It is 2017 and I finally own a laptop with 32GiB of ECC(!) RAM. That is pretty damn cool. Allow me to roll out my specs, just cause I love this laptop: * Quad Core Xeon (1505M) * Discrete GPU with acceptable gaming performance and great at cracking passwords in a pinch * 32 GiB of ECC RAM * 1920x1080 15.6" (144ppi) display with no mic or web cam * An actually decent keyboard * Touchpad that is actually nice * So many ports. All the ports. The best ports (4 USB-3, 1 USB-C, HDMI, mini DP, Ethernet, SD Card slot, Smartcard Slot) * For the cost of equivalent Applecare, someone will show up to my house same day and fix this beast if something breaks * Expandable and replacement storage and memory Tell me all those ports don't make you a little jealous if you are using a Macbook, I won't believe you ;). It does come at he cost of this laptop being a bit chunky, so it won't be for everyone. You can also get it with a HiDPI display, but I actually prefer things right in this 120-144ppi range more than Retina. It is just a great computing package. End of story. I also still love my 2013 MBP. It is also a beautiful machine for its own reasons, so I am no Dell / Linux fanperson, but I have a bit of a crush on this laptop as I just got it about a month ago :)

purrcat259 9y ago
What laptop make and model is this please? Sounds great. Is the keyboard backlit?
- cpburns2009 9y ago
  > One laptop worth investigating that I haven't seen anyone discussing in this thread is the Precision 7520. He has a Dell Precision 7520. If you customize the model on the Dell website, there's a backlit keyboard option.
  - bitexploder 9y ago
    ^^^^ See above :) Just make sure anyone seriously considers this takes a long hard look at hte physical dimensions and weight. It is not a sleek or light machine :)