11 ms·

New Orleans man locked up nearly 8 years awaiting trial, then case gets tossed

250 points by rbcgerard 9y ago

nickthemagicman 9y ago
The court system claims it doesn't have enough money while over half the criminals/defendants are in for drugs. Theres a very simple solution here.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- bdamm 9y ago
  Am I to assume you mean to legalize drugs?
  - praet 9y ago
    I'm pretty confident he's not suggesting a rapid death-penalty for drug-offenders
    - nezzle 9y ago
      Hey it works for Singapore, Indonesia, and probably the Philippines. I think people are easier to control, but less productive when they have drugs. So it's really a question of what your nation is optimizing for at the time. Of course having a sub-class of previously convicted minor offenders, who as a result struggle with work/life, can also be fairly effective. It's not exactly slavery - that was mostly their ancestors. https://ramio1983.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/image1df.jpg https://ramio1983.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/image1df.jpg
      - woah 9y ago
        People in the US have a lot of drugs and are also very productive. Your assertion makes no sense. I don't know much about Indonesia, but Singapore is an authoritarian state, and Duerte is trying to turn the Phillipines into a dictatorship. Tyrants like drug laws, and especially death penalty for drugs because it gives them an easy way to keep their thugs in practice, remind the populace that they are ready to kill, and gives them an easy way to assassinate troublemakers.
        nickthemagicman 9y ago
        Thanks. This is 100% accurate. I think OP was either a troll or we have Duterte on HN.
      - nickthemagicman 9y ago
        """I think people are easier to control, but less productive when they have drugs. So it's really a question of what your nation is optimizing for at the time.""" This is an opinion. My opinion about your opinion is that your opinion is completely dumb and completely unfounded. Michael Phelps smokes marijuana...along with countless other extremely high performers, doctor's, lawyers, politicians,movie stars, scientists Nobel prize winners, etc. As for saying that executing drug offenders 'works'....I can't think of anything I've ever heard that's dumber in my life. Especially when you could just execute ANYONE for breaking a law and keep the jails completely empty! Why would you be so weak on crime?
    - username223 9y ago
      There is a middle ground here, folks. Legalize some less-addictive and -harmful drugs like marijuana. Legalize possession of small quantities of others. Get rid of three strikes laws. It's not easy, but we can work toward a compromise that recognizes both that drug use can cause harm to society, and that it often does not. We can punish people who push opioids, while leaving harmless users alone.
      - bicubic 9y ago
        No matter which way you look at it, drug policy enforcement causes more harm and costs more dollars than the problem it purports to alleviate. Take a look at Portugal where all drug possession was decriminalized and drug-related crime went down. This is not a complicated problem, the solution is clear and well documented. The only obstacle is multi billion dollar sector that exists only because of the prohibitive drug policy. That sector won't just dissolve without putting up a fight.
- warent 9y ago
  The simple solution being what? You left a cliffhanger
  - jopsen 9y ago
    look to Portugal, the legalization is not the main thing. (shorter sentences, because prison doesn't work, and treatment above all) It's no cliffhanger - really any action would do wonders. Instead we see systemic failures at multiple levels.
    - princeb 9y ago
      parent post seems quite vague. i think he means to use these imprisoned drug users as free labour to make money for the state. i believe some private prisons already do that.
      - andrepd 9y ago
        Economic incentives for imprisoning people to be effective slave labourers is such a mind-bogglingly stupid idea that I don't even
        mrguyorama 9y ago
        And yet we do it, and slavery is still constitutionally allowed as long as it's a prisoner
gok 9y ago
There are many cases of defendants' right to a speedy trial being trampled. I'm not completely convinced this is a particularly great example of that. He was arrested while on parole, which is why he didn't get out on bail. Many of the delays came from his side. If it had gone to trial, the prosecution would have only had to prove he was guilty by a preponderance of the evidence. So the long time in detention could have just been a strategy.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Many of the delays came from his side. If it had gone to trial, the prosecution would have only had to prove he was guilty by a preponderance of the evidence No, that would be true if it was just revoking parole on the prior charge (it's kind of odd that that didn't happen, but it's possible that the original sentence ended to soon after the arrest to bother), but this was a new criminal charge which would have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
  - gok 9y ago
    You’re right
- nebulous1 9y ago
  It seems pretty unfair to reset the time limit when they dropped the original charges and recharged him the next day (the article is unclear on what the charges were, and how they differed if they differed at all) Same for giving a whole new two years after Hurricane Issac. At some point, particularly for non-violent charges, surely they should have to at least release him until the trial.
- tyingq 9y ago
  I don't see any case where 8 years feels like due process though. The pipeline is based on plea bargains. Wanting a trial shouldn't take 8 years, ever.
  - TheCoelacanth 9y ago
    Also doesn't feel like the "speedy trial" that he is constitutionally guaranteed.
gozur88 9y ago
While I agree it's unconstitutional to park someone in jail for eight years without bail or a trial, this particular guy is probably ecstatic at how it all worked out: >As a parolee with a previous drug charge to his name, Smith was looking at a sentence of 20 years to life if convicted as a habitual offender, according to one of his lawyers.
- sergers 9y ago
  From the article, he potentially had a plea deal to get out in 2015, but turned it down. > “He could have come home as early as January of 2015,” said defense attorney Martin Regan, whose firm handled the case from the start. “There’s a man who just steadfastly said, 'I don’t care, you can keep me. I’m not guilty, I want a trial.' ” I am thinking it was strategy to wait it out, perhaps not initially. Or thinking about how he's gonna become a millionaire after suing because of the delays/ loss of right to speedy trial
  - jopsen 9y ago
    Or maybe he was just innocent?
  - Chris2048 9y ago
    He wanted his day in court..
- derefr 9y ago
  Previous drug charge? Does that mean that he wasn't convicted the first time, either? The only thing "habitual" there, then, would be the police's desire to arrest him.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    He was a parolee on the previous charge, which means he was convicted, sentenced to incarceration, and released from that incarceration on parole.
    - 9y ago
phil248 9y ago
I would hope that these days no rational individual could support jail time for any non-violent drug crime, with the possible exception of cross-border smuggling, which treads on some different areas of the law.
- eropple 9y ago
  Crime of consumption or mere possession, I fully agree. Even distribution of something like pot, sure. But at the same time, I'm not sure that a rational individual has to agree with the proposition that somebody who's peddling fentanyl should not be put in jail. (I don't think, from what I know, that distribution of crack would be in that latter group.)
  - eloff 9y ago
    Legalize heroin and then nobody will peddle fentanyl. Crises solved, see Portugal for an example in the real world. Making drugs illegal only really benefits drug dealers by putting the competition in jail and raising prices. Education and laws seem to fare so much better. See alcohol now and compare that to prohibition days rife with organized crime. It's political suicide to legalize street drugs in most countries - so it's a hard sell, but it's the option that makes the most sense.
    - greggman 9y ago
      In 2012, about 3.3 million net deaths, or 5.9% of all global deaths, were attributable to alcohol consumption. http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/facts/alcohol/en/ http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/facts/alcohol/en/ Legalizing drugs without more thought may actually make the problem worse. If drugs were 100% fully legal no restrictions why wouldn't corporations start advertising and pushing them as much as they do alcohol today? I'm actually for legalizing drugs but heard these arguments on an Intelligence Squared debate. BTW: Heroin isn't legal in Portugal, it's just decriminalized. You can still go to prison for selling heroin in Portugal and using, while not a criminal offense will still get you sent in to the authorities for "dissuasion"
leesalminen 9y ago
The concept of bail negatively affects the poor. Washington DC has a new system where they got rid of the bail system. They have 2 options: RoR (release on your own recognizance) and hold until trial. Although not perfect, this is much better than a bail system.
- jopsen 9y ago
  > The concept of bail negatively affects the poor. I thought that was intentional :) afaik bail isn't used much outside the US, Canada and UK. The US for-profit bail industry is the usual case of Americans taking a bad idea to the extreme in the search of a little profit.
  - an_account 9y ago
    It makes sense as a deposit to make sure you show up to trial. But in practice, with bail bonds, it’s a fee. The financial amounts are rarely in line with what it would take to get someone to show up trial.
    - chrisper 9y ago
      If bails were relative to income, then this would maybe not be such a huge problem.
  - Feniks 9y ago
    That's because in Europe it is very difficult to disappear under the radar. Most people show up on trial, the ones that don't are nabbed pretty quickly. The only people who have to await trial in jail are the ones that are considered dangerous or a real flight risk. There's no way a low level drug dealer would escape abroad.
Elv13 9y ago
I think we have to be careful given the article only looks at one side. While in this case it took an absurd turn and is a clear case of "lock this dude behind bars: we don't like him", it is not always that simple. I would give as an example the patent trolls. They abuse of the court and fill motions after motions (or dismiss early) for the sole purpose of making their case expansive to defend against. A knowledgeable inmate or greedy public defendant could use the same tactics and delay the case only for the deadline to pass. If it can turn a life sentence into a 24 months one, then procrastination and delays are the quickest way out of jail. That being said, for recurrent inmates, the failure of the system is definitely in the rehab process. In some US states, it seems like the legal system exists only to sustain itself, its elected officials and the industries (lawyers, penitentiary, investigators, forensic) that runs it. This case is apparently a blatant example of bureaucracy indifference. If the fact were shown in their face, they would blame the weather or the defendant own motions to have his rights taken into account. I am not a socialist, far from it. However when it comes to absurdities such as this, it is a clear sign that a proper social net is necessary to avoid a slippery slopes where the incarcerated population will grow and grow and grow. So do the expanses associated with it. Better solve the problem instead of the consequences.
flightrisk 9y ago
There's an inmate in LA County jail who has been there 9 years awaiting trial on attempted murder. He is completely and totally institutionalized. A very nice guy but intimidating. Cops can arrest you for any reason, and if you can't make bail, then they place you in jails with convicted violent felons, some on murder trials. In LA jails, you have to be racist. Depending on your pod and program, you have special requirements. You often have to fight, especially if you are black or Hispanic. If there's a brawl inside the pod, you have to fight other races or you will be beaten by your own. I sat in a tiny room for 11 hours with 50 inmates, half of which had face tattoos and were gang members. A room where inmates had been beaten to death and the others just cover up the cameras. Multiple times I wasn't called to court, they were "dry runs". Mental torture and real risk required just for due process. These types of systems only create more criminals. The deputies act like psychopaths, taunting and roughing up inmates. But not as bad since now the FBI has cameras watching them. The person who interceded in my misdemeanor case and put me in jail was the former head of California Homeland Security. His lawyer, also a former federal prosecutor, was in every court appearance lobbying the prosecutor. He also represented the Chief of Police, the City Council and the Sheriff. Their boss is a secretive billionaire whose former lawyer became the new Supreme Court Justice this year after he lobbied He is a very powerful person who hires former federal officials as political mercenaries. This all happened because they wanted to protect a wealthy sex predator. In 2-weeks, the Homeland official is actually testifying for the sex predator for his civil trial. He is presumably testifying against my credibility.
- dleslie 9y ago
  Well here's a person that could benefit from an internet where both the protocols and platforms were anonymous.
- jsmthrowaway 9y ago
  Hi, four-month felony pretrial inmate who is proudly defying recidivism here. I’m the kind of guy who thinks load balancing is a fun topic of discussion — ask anyone who knows me how incredibly unfit for jail I am — and I survived just fine. You seem to have had the shit scared out of you, and I wanted to clarify a few things for you. You don’t have to be racist to survive county. You simply stick with your race. There’s a distinction. Yes, if shit pops off and you’re not sticking up for your race, you can get called out. But nobody is asking the 70-year-old with a limp to roll heavy with the woods/kinfolk/whatever. There’s more an element here of getting marked as a bitch: prison, and to a lesser extent county, is a game of respect. Run store and someone steals from you? Handle it or it will be repeated, because they notice you don’t stick up for yourself. The smart ones watch. But the woods weren’t eyeing me when I played my daily game of spades with a kinfolk partner (and still friend). It’s not like that in county. Prison, maybe. DO behavior is intentional. County belongs to them. Prison belongs to the inmates. This was explained to me as “this is their house. Prison is ours.” The person explaining, our head wood, was looking forward to prison. Life is way different in prison, with mutual respect — again, I’m told. Jail sucks on purpose. If it didn’t suck nobody would care that they ended up there. This is the American approach to corrections, that of deterrence; in other places there is more of a focus on rehabilitation, and you’ll find a much different jail experience. Jail is a lot more fun when you make it abundantly clear to the DOs that you see through their psychopathy. It’s a control mechanism for those who don’t. Once they figure out it doesn’t work on you and you’ll play their game anyway, you can actually develop a decent rapport with DOs. Just never, ever, ever trust them. I grieved one and he used to pull tricks like calling me out right after a race meeting to make it look like I was a snitch (don’t even THINK about snitching, or enjoy PC). They know the game better than you do, and they’re paid to do it. Those dry runs were actually nice, I found, because it was a nice break outside. My cell was way better than transfer cells, though, and breaking routine sucks. Doing time is all about routine. By 30 days in, I had a schedule. The next 100 flew. Just keep to yourself, improve yourself during the downtime, get on a schedule, and play the respect game carefully and you’ll be fine. I got marked quickly as the computer nerd, but that also meant I could help people out with their legal stuff. Find a purpose and become useful, and stand up for yourself when needed. Lead with your shoulder and pivot, if it comes to that — I’ve fought more outside than in, though, and most of the violence I experienced was from DOs (tased once because I couldn’t hear orders in the shower, pepper sprayed twice). Help the right people and you’ll have the right friends, which is a big part of survival. Some parts of your comment confused me, so maybe you can clarify. Murder trial inmates are almost always confined in maximum. Medium is a larger cross section of crimes and classification, and most places call medium “gladiator school” or “gladiator academy” because there’s a lot more freedom than maximum and still some hard hitters. Minimum is like summer camp that you can’t leave, with everybody sitting for DUI or check fraud. Transfer cells mix this classification up, which is probably where you landed with the heavy hitters in that 11 hour room (that sounds like transfer), but a misdemeanor rap almost guarantees you were in minimum. Am I right? Or did you get classified as a hitter and thrown in school? I can’t speak to the rest of your comment.
clord 9y ago
The government should pay back-salary to anyone with a case dismissed in this manner. This would cause queue back-pressure that would focus the system on high-value targets at the front of the queue.
- ekianjo 9y ago
  > The government should pay back-salary to anyone with a case dismissed in this manner. The "government" is the taxpayers, basically. I'd rather have all folks involved in ruining that man's life being sued like they should, and having to repay him for the opportunity loss. Taxpayers represent an infinite pocket to steal from, but private citizens don't have as much resources and should be held responsible for their decisions.
  - noer 9y ago
    Prosecutors, for the most part are immune to civil suits being brought against them.
    - ekianjo 9y ago
      Isn't that something we should fix?
      - noer 9y ago
        I think so, but the Supreme Court didn't in 1976. Frankly, I think there should be a lot more personal liability around careless work when it impacts the health & safety of others. For example, I think police misconduct damages should be paid of out of the police pension funds.
- loeg 9y ago
  You're arguing that higher income poeple should get speedier trials than lower income people?
  - taneq 9y ago
dsfyu404ed 9y ago
It's pretty obvious what happened here. Everyone involved basically assumed he was or would be found guilty and didn't see an issue with him sitting in a cell for "just a few more months"
skbohra123 9y ago
Sadly, this is common in India. In India there are people in jail for decades, without even a trial[1]. There are just 15 judges per million people in India as compared to around 110 judges per million in US. ---- [1] http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/38-years-in-jail-without-trial/story-mKpSuk0mtGjuii6dDQ3DsK.html http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/38-years-in-jail-without...
selimthegrim 9y ago
I live in New Orleans. The judge, Flemings-Davillier, is well known as a tool of the district attorney, Canizzaro, who employs dirty tactics like fake subpoenas. For more on Orleans Parish justice, google "Give me a lawyer dog"
- tcarn 9y ago
  Oh man that was a crazy case...
int_19h 9y ago
If you have so many people in jail awaiting trial that judges have multi-year backlogs to try cases, that says a lot about the justice system... but more importantly, what does it say about the laws themselves?
bibbbe 9y ago
Another complete abortion of Justice. What happened to his constitutional right to a speedy trial? USA no longer operates under the rule of law.
petre 9y ago
This is outright extorsion for bail money.
coldtea 9y ago
If the relevant prosecutor goes to jail for 1-2 years, they'll learn not to do that the next time.
Feniks 9y ago
Stop being poor. That's the only solution. Because you can go back in time 30 years and find articles like this or fast forward 30 years and find articles like this. Its not going to change.

250 points by rbcgerard 9y ago

The court system claims it doesn't have enough money while over half the criminals/defendants are in for drugs. Theres a very simple solution here.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
bdamm 9y ago
Am I to assume you mean to legalize drugs?
- praet 9y ago
  I'm pretty confident he's not suggesting a rapid death-penalty for drug-offenders
  - nezzle 9y ago
    Hey it works for Singapore, Indonesia, and probably the Philippines. I think people are easier to control, but less productive when they have drugs. So it's really a question of what your nation is optimizing for at the time. Of course having a sub-class of previously convicted minor offenders, who as a result struggle with work/life, can also be fairly effective. It's not exactly slavery - that was mostly their ancestors. https://ramio1983.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/image1df.jpg https://ramio1983.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/image1df.jpg
    - woah 9y ago
      People in the US have a lot of drugs and are also very productive. Your assertion makes no sense. I don't know much about Indonesia, but Singapore is an authoritarian state, and Duerte is trying to turn the Phillipines into a dictatorship. Tyrants like drug laws, and especially death penalty for drugs because it gives them an easy way to keep their thugs in practice, remind the populace that they are ready to kill, and gives them an easy way to assassinate troublemakers.
      - nickthemagicman 9y ago
        Thanks. This is 100% accurate. I think OP was either a troll or we have Duterte on HN.
    - nickthemagicman 9y ago
      """I think people are easier to control, but less productive when they have drugs. So it's really a question of what your nation is optimizing for at the time.""" This is an opinion. My opinion about your opinion is that your opinion is completely dumb and completely unfounded. Michael Phelps smokes marijuana...along with countless other extremely high performers, doctor's, lawyers, politicians,movie stars, scientists Nobel prize winners, etc. As for saying that executing drug offenders 'works'....I can't think of anything I've ever heard that's dumber in my life. Especially when you could just execute ANYONE for breaking a law and keep the jails completely empty! Why would you be so weak on crime?
  - username223 9y ago
    There is a middle ground here, folks. Legalize some less-addictive and -harmful drugs like marijuana. Legalize possession of small quantities of others. Get rid of three strikes laws. It's not easy, but we can work toward a compromise that recognizes both that drug use can cause harm to society, and that it often does not. We can punish people who push opioids, while leaving harmless users alone.
    - bicubic 9y ago
      No matter which way you look at it, drug policy enforcement causes more harm and costs more dollars than the problem it purports to alleviate. Take a look at Portugal where all drug possession was decriminalized and drug-related crime went down. This is not a complicated problem, the solution is clear and well documented. The only obstacle is multi billion dollar sector that exists only because of the prohibitive drug policy. That sector won't just dissolve without putting up a fight.
warent 9y ago
The simple solution being what? You left a cliffhanger
- jopsen 9y ago
  look to Portugal, the legalization is not the main thing. (shorter sentences, because prison doesn't work, and treatment above all) It's no cliffhanger - really any action would do wonders. Instead we see systemic failures at multiple levels.
  - princeb 9y ago
    parent post seems quite vague. i think he means to use these imprisoned drug users as free labour to make money for the state. i believe some private prisons already do that.
    - andrepd 9y ago
      Economic incentives for imprisoning people to be effective slave labourers is such a mind-bogglingly stupid idea that I don't even
      - mrguyorama 9y ago
        And yet we do it, and slavery is still constitutionally allowed as long as it's a prisoner

gok 9y ago

There are many cases of defendants' right to a speedy trial being trampled. I'm not completely convinced this is a particularly great example of that. He was arrested while on parole, which is why he didn't get out on bail. Many of the delays came from his side. If it had gone to trial, the prosecution would have only had to prove he was guilty by a preponderance of the evidence. So the long time in detention could have just been a strategy.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> Many of the delays came from his side. If it had gone to trial, the prosecution would have only had to prove he was guilty by a preponderance of the evidence No, that would be true if it was just revoking parole on the prior charge (it's kind of odd that that didn't happen, but it's possible that the original sentence ended to soon after the arrest to bother), but this was a new criminal charge which would have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.
- gok 9y ago
  You’re right
nebulous1 9y ago
It seems pretty unfair to reset the time limit when they dropped the original charges and recharged him the next day (the article is unclear on what the charges were, and how they differed if they differed at all) Same for giving a whole new two years after Hurricane Issac. At some point, particularly for non-violent charges, surely they should have to at least release him until the trial.
tyingq 9y ago
I don't see any case where 8 years feels like due process though. The pipeline is based on plea bargains. Wanting a trial shouldn't take 8 years, ever.
- TheCoelacanth 9y ago
  Also doesn't feel like the "speedy trial" that he is constitutionally guaranteed.

gozur88 9y ago

While I agree it's unconstitutional to park someone in jail for eight years without bail or a trial, this particular guy is probably ecstatic at how it all worked out: >As a parolee with a previous drug charge to his name, Smith was looking at a sentence of 20 years to life if convicted as a habitual offender, according to one of his lawyers.

sergers 9y ago
From the article, he potentially had a plea deal to get out in 2015, but turned it down. > “He could have come home as early as January of 2015,” said defense attorney Martin Regan, whose firm handled the case from the start. “There’s a man who just steadfastly said, 'I don’t care, you can keep me. I’m not guilty, I want a trial.' ” I am thinking it was strategy to wait it out, perhaps not initially. Or thinking about how he's gonna become a millionaire after suing because of the delays/ loss of right to speedy trial
- jopsen 9y ago
  Or maybe he was just innocent?
- Chris2048 9y ago
  He wanted his day in court..
derefr 9y ago
Previous drug charge? Does that mean that he wasn't convicted the first time, either? The only thing "habitual" there, then, would be the police's desire to arrest him.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  He was a parolee on the previous charge, which means he was convicted, sentenced to incarceration, and released from that incarceration on parole.
  - 9y ago

phil248 9y ago

I would hope that these days no rational individual could support jail time for any non-violent drug crime, with the possible exception of cross-border smuggling, which treads on some different areas of the law.

eropple 9y ago
Crime of consumption or mere possession, I fully agree. Even distribution of something like pot, sure. But at the same time, I'm not sure that a rational individual has to agree with the proposition that somebody who's peddling fentanyl should not be put in jail. (I don't think, from what I know, that distribution of crack would be in that latter group.)
- eloff 9y ago
  Legalize heroin and then nobody will peddle fentanyl. Crises solved, see Portugal for an example in the real world. Making drugs illegal only really benefits drug dealers by putting the competition in jail and raising prices. Education and laws seem to fare so much better. See alcohol now and compare that to prohibition days rife with organized crime. It's political suicide to legalize street drugs in most countries - so it's a hard sell, but it's the option that makes the most sense.
  - greggman 9y ago
    In 2012, about 3.3 million net deaths, or 5.9% of all global deaths, were attributable to alcohol consumption. http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/facts/alcohol/en/ http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/facts/alcohol/en/ Legalizing drugs without more thought may actually make the problem worse. If drugs were 100% fully legal no restrictions why wouldn't corporations start advertising and pushing them as much as they do alcohol today? I'm actually for legalizing drugs but heard these arguments on an Intelligence Squared debate. BTW: Heroin isn't legal in Portugal, it's just decriminalized. You can still go to prison for selling heroin in Portugal and using, while not a criminal offense will still get you sent in to the authorities for "dissuasion"

leesalminen 9y ago

The concept of bail negatively affects the poor. Washington DC has a new system where they got rid of the bail system. They have 2 options: RoR (release on your own recognizance) and hold until trial. Although not perfect, this is much better than a bail system.

jopsen 9y ago
> The concept of bail negatively affects the poor. I thought that was intentional :) afaik bail isn't used much outside the US, Canada and UK. The US for-profit bail industry is the usual case of Americans taking a bad idea to the extreme in the search of a little profit.
- an_account 9y ago
  It makes sense as a deposit to make sure you show up to trial. But in practice, with bail bonds, it’s a fee. The financial amounts are rarely in line with what it would take to get someone to show up trial.
  - chrisper 9y ago
    If bails were relative to income, then this would maybe not be such a huge problem.
- Feniks 9y ago
  That's because in Europe it is very difficult to disappear under the radar. Most people show up on trial, the ones that don't are nabbed pretty quickly. The only people who have to await trial in jail are the ones that are considered dangerous or a real flight risk. There's no way a low level drug dealer would escape abroad.

Elv13 9y ago

I think we have to be careful given the article only looks at one side. While in this case it took an absurd turn and is a clear case of "lock this dude behind bars: we don't like him", it is not always that simple. I would give as an example the patent trolls. They abuse of the court and fill motions after motions (or dismiss early) for the sole purpose of making their case expansive to defend against. A knowledgeable inmate or greedy public defendant could use the same tactics and delay the case only for the deadline to pass. If it can turn a life sentence into a 24 months one, then procrastination and delays are the quickest way out of jail. That being said, for recurrent inmates, the failure of the system is definitely in the rehab process. In some US states, it seems like the legal system exists only to sustain itself, its elected officials and the industries (lawyers, penitentiary, investigators, forensic) that runs it. This case is apparently a blatant example of bureaucracy indifference. If the fact were shown in their face, they would blame the weather or the defendant own motions to have his rights taken into account. I am not a socialist, far from it. However when it comes to absurdities such as this, it is a clear sign that a proper social net is necessary to avoid a slippery slopes where the incarcerated population will grow and grow and grow. So do the expanses associated with it. Better solve the problem instead of the consequences.

flightrisk 9y ago

There's an inmate in LA County jail who has been there 9 years awaiting trial on attempted murder. He is completely and totally institutionalized. A very nice guy but intimidating. Cops can arrest you for any reason, and if you can't make bail, then they place you in jails with convicted violent felons, some on murder trials. In LA jails, you have to be racist. Depending on your pod and program, you have special requirements. You often have to fight, especially if you are black or Hispanic. If there's a brawl inside the pod, you have to fight other races or you will be beaten by your own. I sat in a tiny room for 11 hours with 50 inmates, half of which had face tattoos and were gang members. A room where inmates had been beaten to death and the others just cover up the cameras. Multiple times I wasn't called to court, they were "dry runs". Mental torture and real risk required just for due process. These types of systems only create more criminals. The deputies act like psychopaths, taunting and roughing up inmates. But not as bad since now the FBI has cameras watching them. The person who interceded in my misdemeanor case and put me in jail was the former head of California Homeland Security. His lawyer, also a former federal prosecutor, was in every court appearance lobbying the prosecutor. He also represented the Chief of Police, the City Council and the Sheriff. Their boss is a secretive billionaire whose former lawyer became the new Supreme Court Justice this year after he lobbied He is a very powerful person who hires former federal officials as political mercenaries. This all happened because they wanted to protect a wealthy sex predator. In 2-weeks, the Homeland official is actually testifying for the sex predator for his civil trial. He is presumably testifying against my credibility.

dleslie 9y ago
Well here's a person that could benefit from an internet where both the protocols and platforms were anonymous.
jsmthrowaway 9y ago
Hi, four-month felony pretrial inmate who is proudly defying recidivism here. I’m the kind of guy who thinks load balancing is a fun topic of discussion — ask anyone who knows me how incredibly unfit for jail I am — and I survived just fine. You seem to have had the shit scared out of you, and I wanted to clarify a few things for you. You don’t have to be racist to survive county. You simply stick with your race. There’s a distinction. Yes, if shit pops off and you’re not sticking up for your race, you can get called out. But nobody is asking the 70-year-old with a limp to roll heavy with the woods/kinfolk/whatever. There’s more an element here of getting marked as a bitch: prison, and to a lesser extent county, is a game of respect. Run store and someone steals from you? Handle it or it will be repeated, because they notice you don’t stick up for yourself. The smart ones watch. But the woods weren’t eyeing me when I played my daily game of spades with a kinfolk partner (and still friend). It’s not like that in county. Prison, maybe. DO behavior is intentional. County belongs to them. Prison belongs to the inmates. This was explained to me as “this is their house. Prison is ours.” The person explaining, our head wood, was looking forward to prison. Life is way different in prison, with mutual respect — again, I’m told. Jail sucks on purpose. If it didn’t suck nobody would care that they ended up there. This is the American approach to corrections, that of deterrence; in other places there is more of a focus on rehabilitation, and you’ll find a much different jail experience. Jail is a lot more fun when you make it abundantly clear to the DOs that you see through their psychopathy. It’s a control mechanism for those who don’t. Once they figure out it doesn’t work on you and you’ll play their game anyway, you can actually develop a decent rapport with DOs. Just never, ever, ever trust them. I grieved one and he used to pull tricks like calling me out right after a race meeting to make it look like I was a snitch (don’t even THINK about snitching, or enjoy PC). They know the game better than you do, and they’re paid to do it. Those dry runs were actually nice, I found, because it was a nice break outside. My cell was way better than transfer cells, though, and breaking routine sucks. Doing time is all about routine. By 30 days in, I had a schedule. The next 100 flew. Just keep to yourself, improve yourself during the downtime, get on a schedule, and play the respect game carefully and you’ll be fine. I got marked quickly as the computer nerd, but that also meant I could help people out with their legal stuff. Find a purpose and become useful, and stand up for yourself when needed. Lead with your shoulder and pivot, if it comes to that — I’ve fought more outside than in, though, and most of the violence I experienced was from DOs (tased once because I couldn’t hear orders in the shower, pepper sprayed twice). Help the right people and you’ll have the right friends, which is a big part of survival. Some parts of your comment confused me, so maybe you can clarify. Murder trial inmates are almost always confined in maximum. Medium is a larger cross section of crimes and classification, and most places call medium “gladiator school” or “gladiator academy” because there’s a lot more freedom than maximum and still some hard hitters. Minimum is like summer camp that you can’t leave, with everybody sitting for DUI or check fraud. Transfer cells mix this classification up, which is probably where you landed with the heavy hitters in that 11 hour room (that sounds like transfer), but a misdemeanor rap almost guarantees you were in minimum. Am I right? Or did you get classified as a hitter and thrown in school? I can’t speak to the rest of your comment.

clord 9y ago

The government should pay back-salary to anyone with a case dismissed in this manner. This would cause queue back-pressure that would focus the system on high-value targets at the front of the queue.

ekianjo 9y ago
> The government should pay back-salary to anyone with a case dismissed in this manner. The "government" is the taxpayers, basically. I'd rather have all folks involved in ruining that man's life being sued like they should, and having to repay him for the opportunity loss. Taxpayers represent an infinite pocket to steal from, but private citizens don't have as much resources and should be held responsible for their decisions.
- noer 9y ago
  Prosecutors, for the most part are immune to civil suits being brought against them.
  - ekianjo 9y ago
    Isn't that something we should fix?
    - noer 9y ago
      I think so, but the Supreme Court didn't in 1976. Frankly, I think there should be a lot more personal liability around careless work when it impacts the health & safety of others. For example, I think police misconduct damages should be paid of out of the police pension funds.
loeg 9y ago
You're arguing that higher income poeple should get speedier trials than lower income people?
- taneq 9y ago

dsfyu404ed 9y ago

It's pretty obvious what happened here. Everyone involved basically assumed he was or would be found guilty and didn't see an issue with him sitting in a cell for "just a few more months"

skbohra123 9y ago

Sadly, this is common in India. In India there are people in jail for decades, without even a trial[1]. There are just 15 judges per million people in India as compared to around 110 judges per million in US. ---- [1] http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/38-years-in-jail-without-trial/story-mKpSuk0mtGjuii6dDQ3DsK.html http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/38-years-in-jail-without...

selimthegrim 9y ago

I live in New Orleans. The judge, Flemings-Davillier, is well known as a tool of the district attorney, Canizzaro, who employs dirty tactics like fake subpoenas. For more on Orleans Parish justice, google "Give me a lawyer dog"

tcarn 9y ago
Oh man that was a crazy case...

int_19h 9y ago

If you have so many people in jail awaiting trial that judges have multi-year backlogs to try cases, that says a lot about the justice system... but more importantly, what does it say about the laws themselves?

bibbbe 9y ago

Another complete abortion of Justice. What happened to his constitutional right to a speedy trial? USA no longer operates under the rule of law.

petre 9y ago

This is outright extorsion for bail money.

coldtea 9y ago

If the relevant prosecutor goes to jail for 1-2 years, they'll learn not to do that the next time.

Feniks 9y ago

Stop being poor. That's the only solution. Because you can go back in time 30 years and find articles like this or fast forward 30 years and find articles like this. Its not going to change.