5 ms·

We don’t really have to bring the US into this, do we?

by zghst 9y ago

meri_dian 9y ago
They try so hard to make everything about America... I've noticed that so many people on this site are incredibly cynical, it's sad. They're so wedded to conspiratorial thinking they lose sight of reality.
- zghst 9y ago
  With my statement I make no assumptions on the intentions or advocacy that they reader may want to relay. I want to keep the conversation focused on the topic at hand, with relevant discussion.
- wybiral 9y ago
  People love having something to hate and someone to blame for things not being ideal. It sure is a lot easier than acknowledging that the world is incredibly complex and nuanced.
- opportune 9y ago
  This is not conspiratorial thinking, it's verified fact. The world is not run by completely well-intentioned people, just as it's not run by completely evil-intentioned people. Just people, which can be capable of both
- jlarocco 9y ago
  Speaking of being cynical and conspiratorial, I think you're making more out of this than there really is. HN is hosted in the United States and that's where most of the readers are. It's natural for a person to use their own country as a comparison in discussions about governments and countries that are foreign to them. There's no conspiracy, and the same thing happens on any discussion site where a majority of users are from a specific country.
volgo 9y ago
The reason to bring US into discussions like this is more because it's a familiar comparison, and less of whataboutism. When you look at something objectively, it's hard to know how sinister (or lack thereof) it is. Because most folks here live in the U.S., it makes the comparison easier.
- zghst 9y ago
  I see no specific phenomena referenced in the relation to the 50 cent party. It is an overtly broad reference with no examples that have clear comparisons to the paper and it’s topic. This is a definite text book example of thinly disguised whataboutism
  - gowld 9y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correct_the_Record https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correct_the_Record "Correct the Record was a super PAC founded by David Brock. It supported Hillary Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign. The super PAC aimed to find and confront social media users who posted unflattering messages about Clinton and paid anonymous tipsters for unflattering scoops about Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump, including audio and video recordings and internal documents."
    - jabretti 9y ago
      Yep, that's an example of what a social media based propaganda campaign looks like in the US. Thankfully, though, there are very important differences to what it looks like in China. Correct the Record has only the resources of one political party, not the entire government, and it exists in opposition to a bunch of equally well funded forces from the other party. You're free to call CTR out on their bullshit, whereas calling the CCP out on its bullshit can easily lead to prison camp or death. In the US there are meme wars, but in China there are none -- just a boot stamping on the face of a Pepe forever.
TaylorAlexander 9y ago
Why wouldn’t we? I dislike the way much of our media talks about “bad” things China does without discussing how the US does similar things. “Hacking” is the one I hear about China doing all the time, despite it being well known that the US government is heavily involved in global hacking efforts and is in fact the strongest player in the field. Yet I hear little about that and too much about China and Russias efforts there. Perhaps if we acknowledged that all nations do these things, we’d have a different outlook on the issue than we would if we imagined this was a problem with “them”.
- splittingTimes 9y ago
  Exactely. China is playing the same game as the West has for at least decade now. Examples that come to mind [1,2]. === [1] https://www.theguardian.com/media/2006/nov/20/mondaymediasection.israel https://www.theguardian.com/media/2006/nov/20/mondaymediasec... [2] HBGary was contracted by the USG to build a tool that is "creating an army of sockpuppets, with sophisticated "persona management" software that allows a small team of only a few people to appear to be many, while keeping the personas from accidentally cross-contaminating each other. Then, to top it off, the team can actually automate some functions so one persona can appear to be an entire Brooks Brothers riot online." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2231471 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2231471 https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-op...

We don’t really have to bring the US into this, do we?

by zghst 9y ago

We don’t really have to bring the US into this, do we?

They try so hard to make everything about America... I've noticed that so many people on this site are incredibly cynical, it's sad. They're so wedded to conspiratorial thinking they lose sight of reality.

zghst 9y ago
With my statement I make no assumptions on the intentions or advocacy that they reader may want to relay. I want to keep the conversation focused on the topic at hand, with relevant discussion.
wybiral 9y ago
People love having something to hate and someone to blame for things not being ideal. It sure is a lot easier than acknowledging that the world is incredibly complex and nuanced.
opportune 9y ago
This is not conspiratorial thinking, it's verified fact. The world is not run by completely well-intentioned people, just as it's not run by completely evil-intentioned people. Just people, which can be capable of both
jlarocco 9y ago
Speaking of being cynical and conspiratorial, I think you're making more out of this than there really is. HN is hosted in the United States and that's where most of the readers are. It's natural for a person to use their own country as a comparison in discussions about governments and countries that are foreign to them. There's no conspiracy, and the same thing happens on any discussion site where a majority of users are from a specific country.

volgo 9y ago

The reason to bring US into discussions like this is more because it's a familiar comparison, and less of whataboutism. When you look at something objectively, it's hard to know how sinister (or lack thereof) it is. Because most folks here live in the U.S., it makes the comparison easier.

zghst 9y ago
I see no specific phenomena referenced in the relation to the 50 cent party. It is an overtly broad reference with no examples that have clear comparisons to the paper and it’s topic. This is a definite text book example of thinly disguised whataboutism
- gowld 9y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correct_the_Record https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correct_the_Record "Correct the Record was a super PAC founded by David Brock. It supported Hillary Clinton's 2016 presidential campaign. The super PAC aimed to find and confront social media users who posted unflattering messages about Clinton and paid anonymous tipsters for unflattering scoops about Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump, including audio and video recordings and internal documents."
  - jabretti 9y ago
    Yep, that's an example of what a social media based propaganda campaign looks like in the US. Thankfully, though, there are very important differences to what it looks like in China. Correct the Record has only the resources of one political party, not the entire government, and it exists in opposition to a bunch of equally well funded forces from the other party. You're free to call CTR out on their bullshit, whereas calling the CCP out on its bullshit can easily lead to prison camp or death. In the US there are meme wars, but in China there are none -- just a boot stamping on the face of a Pepe forever.

TaylorAlexander 9y ago

Why wouldn’t we? I dislike the way much of our media talks about “bad” things China does without discussing how the US does similar things. “Hacking” is the one I hear about China doing all the time, despite it being well known that the US government is heavily involved in global hacking efforts and is in fact the strongest player in the field. Yet I hear little about that and too much about China and Russias efforts there. Perhaps if we acknowledged that all nations do these things, we’d have a different outlook on the issue than we would if we imagined this was a problem with “them”.

splittingTimes 9y ago
Exactely. China is playing the same game as the West has for at least decade now. Examples that come to mind [1,2]. === [1] https://www.theguardian.com/media/2006/nov/20/mondaymediasection.israel https://www.theguardian.com/media/2006/nov/20/mondaymediasec... [2] HBGary was contracted by the USG to build a tool that is "creating an army of sockpuppets, with sophisticated "persona management" software that allows a small team of only a few people to appear to be many, while keeping the personas from accidentally cross-contaminating each other. Then, to top it off, the team can actually automate some functions so one persona can appear to be an entire Brooks Brothers riot online." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2231471 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2231471 https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-op...