6 ms·

I don't blame you for defending a nation that, in my experience, is the victim of a lot of ugly stereotypes in the United States (and probably much of western E

I don't blame you for defending a nation that, in my experience, is the victim of a lot of ugly stereotypes in the United States (and probably much of western Europe) in the face of an unflattering article. But I think you're being a little harsh--to me the author seemed to be going out of her way to make clear she was describing only a limited part of the country. For example, the article makes crystal clear that, that, as you say, the feuds are limited to a small portion of Albania: > The killing is concentrated in northern Albania—in the rural, often unreachable villages of the Accursed Mountains, and in the modern city of Shkodër, one of the oldest municipalities in southeastern Europe. Similarly, the author's comments about the road, etc., are specifically about "northern Albania." I'm in no position to determine whether or not this addresses the substance of your comment but, at the very least, it is clear that this description is not about the country as a whole. And finally, about the language: I'm again in no position to judge (though it does seem likely that written Albanian would be challenging for an English speaker simply due to the much larger number alphabet), but I'll just note that the quote you reproduce is, I suspect, intended to be written phonetically, not using standard Albanian orthography.

Mediterraneo10 9y ago
> to me the author seemed to be going out of her way to make clear she was describing only a limited part of the country. No, her presentation is very jumbled. Talking about ISIS on the basis of an “ex-Army friend”? Northern Albania is overwhelmingly Catholic, and that mention of Islamism results from suddenly trying to bring Kosovo and Macedonia into the article (and even then, her “ex-Army friend” is exaggerating).
- pdabbadabba 9y ago
  We can agree that her army friend sounds like a nut, and it was probably poor judgment to include those inflammatory quotes from him. ("When you touch down get a decent knife and keep it on you," for example, sounds like poor advice at best.) And we can probably agree that the short passage you highlighted is not great as a whole. If I were her editor, I might have taken it out. But I'm not sure what this has to do with the point under discussion, which was whether the author made clear that the feuds are limited to a small portion of Albania, and are far from a nationwide phenomenon. Moreover, for the record, the potential for radicalization of Albanian Muslims is by no means an issue of this author's own invention. It's easy to find numerous other examples of reports to this effect. So it seems indisputably true that "there are still worried mumblings" that Albania could become a recruiting ground for ISIS. One can easily find these worried mumblings with a cursory Google search. (Of course, the truth of the underlying proposition may be a different matter. I don't know.) I also have serious doubts about your statistics. Albania as a whole is majority Muslim [https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/al.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/...], and Albanian Kosovars are overwhelmingly Muslim [https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/22/world/europe/how-the-saudis-turned-kosovo-into-fertile-ground-for-isis.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/22/world/europe/how-the-saud...]. So it would stand to reason that northern Albania has at least a sizable Muslim population.
  - Mediterraneo10 9y ago
    > So it would stand to reason that northern Albania has at least a sizable Muslim population. No, there is no sizable Muslim population in Northern Albania. While in the far south Orthodox Christianity and Islam are very mixed, in the far north the population is almost 100% Catholic.
    - pdabbadabba 9y ago
      I'm really not that interested in belaboring this point, but you're painting with such a broad brush (and by merely repeating the same assertions), that I couldn't resist digging in a little further. And it turns out that, indeed, there is a sizable Muslim population in Northern Albania--unless you're using some special definition of "northern Albania." (I suppose this is possible. But, if so, it does not appear to coincide with the region being discussed in the article--Shkodër and the Accursed Mountains--which both appear to be areas with significant numbers of Muslims). There are portions of the north that are overwhelmingly Catholic (not actually inconsistent with there also being a sizable Muslim population, but never mind), but also many other areas of the north that are majority Muslim. Source [via Wikipedia]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Albania#/media/File:Albania_majority_religion_2011_census.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Albania#/media/Fil...
      - Mediterraneo10 9y ago
        Shkodër and that portion of the Accursed Mountains where gjakmarrja saw a revival in the 1990s, are within that portion of your map that designates an overwhelmingly Catholic area. To the northeast is an area with a larger Muslim population, but within the context of Albanian culture that area (Kukës, Peshkopi) tends to be designated "Northeastern Albania" to set it apart from Northern Albania that is centered around Shkodër. North and Northeastern Albania were separated by considerable natural barriers until recent times, and while the Ottomans made inroads in the latter and Islam spread, in the former the Ottomans never established a firm grip and the area was a fortress of Roman Catholicism.
- tryingagainbro 9y ago
  >>“What I can tell you in broad strokes is that Jihadi sympathy is rising in the area. With any luck you might just spot the ISIS flag being flown in the open,” Like you said, that area is virtually 100% Catholic, but in all areas, police are MERCILESS with such things. Free speech takes a backseat. >>“As far as advice goes, when you touch down get a decent knife and keep it on you.”) Yeah, a woman with a knife. Anything can happen, and crimes of opportunity do happen, but she'll probably be 10 times safer than walking at night in average dangerous US city. For one, anyone touching a tourist--and they have--will be hunted down. He'll end up with bruises for resisting arrest :)

Mediterraneo10 9y ago

> to me the author seemed to be going out of her way to make clear she was describing only a limited part of the country. No, her presentation is very jumbled. Talking about ISIS on the basis of an “ex-Army friend”? Northern Albania is overwhelmingly Catholic, and that mention of Islamism results from suddenly trying to bring Kosovo and Macedonia into the article (and even then, her “ex-Army friend” is exaggerating).

pdabbadabba 9y ago
We can agree that her army friend sounds like a nut, and it was probably poor judgment to include those inflammatory quotes from him. ("When you touch down get a decent knife and keep it on you," for example, sounds like poor advice at best.) And we can probably agree that the short passage you highlighted is not great as a whole. If I were her editor, I might have taken it out. But I'm not sure what this has to do with the point under discussion, which was whether the author made clear that the feuds are limited to a small portion of Albania, and are far from a nationwide phenomenon. Moreover, for the record, the potential for radicalization of Albanian Muslims is by no means an issue of this author's own invention. It's easy to find numerous other examples of reports to this effect. So it seems indisputably true that "there are still worried mumblings" that Albania could become a recruiting ground for ISIS. One can easily find these worried mumblings with a cursory Google search. (Of course, the truth of the underlying proposition may be a different matter. I don't know.) I also have serious doubts about your statistics. Albania as a whole is majority Muslim [https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/al.html https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/...], and Albanian Kosovars are overwhelmingly Muslim [https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/22/world/europe/how-the-saudis-turned-kosovo-into-fertile-ground-for-isis.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/22/world/europe/how-the-saud...]. So it would stand to reason that northern Albania has at least a sizable Muslim population.
- Mediterraneo10 9y ago
  > So it would stand to reason that northern Albania has at least a sizable Muslim population. No, there is no sizable Muslim population in Northern Albania. While in the far south Orthodox Christianity and Islam are very mixed, in the far north the population is almost 100% Catholic.
  - pdabbadabba 9y ago
    I'm really not that interested in belaboring this point, but you're painting with such a broad brush (and by merely repeating the same assertions), that I couldn't resist digging in a little further. And it turns out that, indeed, there is a sizable Muslim population in Northern Albania--unless you're using some special definition of "northern Albania." (I suppose this is possible. But, if so, it does not appear to coincide with the region being discussed in the article--Shkodër and the Accursed Mountains--which both appear to be areas with significant numbers of Muslims). There are portions of the north that are overwhelmingly Catholic (not actually inconsistent with there also being a sizable Muslim population, but never mind), but also many other areas of the north that are majority Muslim. Source [via Wikipedia]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Albania#/media/File:Albania_majority_religion_2011_census.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Albania#/media/Fil...
    - Mediterraneo10 9y ago
      Shkodër and that portion of the Accursed Mountains where gjakmarrja saw a revival in the 1990s, are within that portion of your map that designates an overwhelmingly Catholic area. To the northeast is an area with a larger Muslim population, but within the context of Albanian culture that area (Kukës, Peshkopi) tends to be designated "Northeastern Albania" to set it apart from Northern Albania that is centered around Shkodër. North and Northeastern Albania were separated by considerable natural barriers until recent times, and while the Ottomans made inroads in the latter and Islam spread, in the former the Ottomans never established a firm grip and the area was a fortress of Roman Catholicism.
tryingagainbro 9y ago
>>“What I can tell you in broad strokes is that Jihadi sympathy is rising in the area. With any luck you might just spot the ISIS flag being flown in the open,” Like you said, that area is virtually 100% Catholic, but in all areas, police are MERCILESS with such things. Free speech takes a backseat. >>“As far as advice goes, when you touch down get a decent knife and keep it on you.”) Yeah, a woman with a knife. Anything can happen, and crimes of opportunity do happen, but she'll probably be 10 times safer than walking at night in average dangerous US city. For one, anyone touching a tourist--and they have--will be hunted down. He'll end up with bruises for resisting arrest :)