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Sure they can try to "outlaw" cryptocurrencies. Or the internet as a whole. Good luck with enforcing it though…

akhatri_aus 9y ago
If you can control the traffic in and out a country, you can control both the internet and block off extra-sovereign chains.
- gruez 9y ago
  ...because censorship (in general) work so well in the past? the bitcoin blockchain generates 6 one MB blocks per hour, that's 1.6 KB/s. i can think of multiple ways to smuggle data in at that bandwidth. blockstream apparently also has satelites broadcasting the blockchain. good luck shutting that down. transactions are even easier. they're less than 0.5KB, something you can easily fit in a few SMS, or in a envelope.
  - akhatri_aus 9y ago
    Everyone would need to smuggle data out, 50%+ of the chain within the country is all that's needed to win. You're not going to get everyone to use satellites to get data in and out. If you've ever been in an African country you'd know SMSs aren't on the cheap side either. You'd also know they have tools that can track and catch your VSAT dishes and fine you heavily.
Retric 9y ago
It's easy to ban mining in a country when you control the backbone infrastructure. At which point there is no difference between cryptocurrencies and any other foreign currency.
- freeloop3 9y ago
  Foreign currency can be confiscated. A brain wallet cannot
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    A brain wallet can be confiscated by rubber-hose cryptanalysis. It is more resistant, perhaps, to detection than cash on hand in foreign currency (though not necessarily particularly more than a foreign currency account where access information is memorized, depending on the threat profile of concern.)
    - freeloop3 9y ago
      Torture may be used to find out the user has bitcoin, but you can never be sure you got it all. If they give you access to n wallets, how do you know they don't have n+1? A foreign currency account is not as easy to setup as a brain wallet.
      - dragonwriter 9y ago
        > Torture may be used to find out the user has bitcoin but you can never be sure you got it all. That's also true of caches of foreign currency in cash (not to mention remote accounts.) Of course, the difficulty of the subject proving full compliance is more of a problem for the subject than the torturer.
        freeloop3 9y ago
        A home can be searched and caches found. A foreign account is difficult to open. It's not hard to see why bitcoin has its appeal, no?
        dragonwriter 9y ago
        > It's not hard to see why bitcoin has its appeal, no? Since I gave the reason (added difficulty in detection, not confiscation) upthread, no, it's not hard to see why it has appeal compared to foreign currency for non-current savings (if you are spending in the domestic economy, which is observable by the authorities, the advantage of Bitcoin is mitigated) under certain threat models.
        9y ago
RcouF1uZ4gsC 9y ago
Or you outlaw changing cryptocurrency into fiat currency or providing any goods or services in exchange for cryptocurrency. What would bitcoin's value be right now, if it was illegal to convert into any fiat currency? No established exchanges (just black market ones). In addition, due to the power requirements, it is probably pretty easy to figure out who is mining.
- mtgx 9y ago
  They can outlaw exchanges and then cryptocurrencies would "simply" become a black market or "shadow" economy. But they can't stop it.
  - matthewbauer 9y ago
    But at that point wouldn’t people just use cash?
    - jstanley 9y ago
      Cash doesn't work over the internet and is not immune to central bank meddling.
pc86 9y ago
It seems to be working pretty well for China, and certain people within North Korea.

If you can control the traffic in and out a country, you can control both the internet and block off extra-sovereign chains.

gruez 9y ago
...because censorship (in general) work so well in the past? the bitcoin blockchain generates 6 one MB blocks per hour, that's 1.6 KB/s. i can think of multiple ways to smuggle data in at that bandwidth. blockstream apparently also has satelites broadcasting the blockchain. good luck shutting that down. transactions are even easier. they're less than 0.5KB, something you can easily fit in a few SMS, or in a envelope.
- akhatri_aus 9y ago
  Everyone would need to smuggle data out, 50%+ of the chain within the country is all that's needed to win. You're not going to get everyone to use satellites to get data in and out. If you've ever been in an African country you'd know SMSs aren't on the cheap side either. You'd also know they have tools that can track and catch your VSAT dishes and fine you heavily.

Retric 9y ago

It's easy to ban mining in a country when you control the backbone infrastructure. At which point there is no difference between cryptocurrencies and any other foreign currency.

freeloop3 9y ago
Foreign currency can be confiscated. A brain wallet cannot
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  A brain wallet can be confiscated by rubber-hose cryptanalysis. It is more resistant, perhaps, to detection than cash on hand in foreign currency (though not necessarily particularly more than a foreign currency account where access information is memorized, depending on the threat profile of concern.)
  - freeloop3 9y ago
    Torture may be used to find out the user has bitcoin, but you can never be sure you got it all. If they give you access to n wallets, how do you know they don't have n+1? A foreign currency account is not as easy to setup as a brain wallet.
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      > Torture may be used to find out the user has bitcoin but you can never be sure you got it all. That's also true of caches of foreign currency in cash (not to mention remote accounts.) Of course, the difficulty of the subject proving full compliance is more of a problem for the subject than the torturer.
      - freeloop3 9y ago
        A home can be searched and caches found. A foreign account is difficult to open. It's not hard to see why bitcoin has its appeal, no?
        dragonwriter 9y ago
        > It's not hard to see why bitcoin has its appeal, no? Since I gave the reason (added difficulty in detection, not confiscation) upthread, no, it's not hard to see why it has appeal compared to foreign currency for non-current savings (if you are spending in the domestic economy, which is observable by the authorities, the advantage of Bitcoin is mitigated) under certain threat models.
        9y ago

RcouF1uZ4gsC 9y ago

Or you outlaw changing cryptocurrency into fiat currency or providing any goods or services in exchange for cryptocurrency. What would bitcoin's value be right now, if it was illegal to convert into any fiat currency? No established exchanges (just black market ones). In addition, due to the power requirements, it is probably pretty easy to figure out who is mining.

mtgx 9y ago
They can outlaw exchanges and then cryptocurrencies would "simply" become a black market or "shadow" economy. But they can't stop it.
- matthewbauer 9y ago
  But at that point wouldn’t people just use cash?
  - jstanley 9y ago
    Cash doesn't work over the internet and is not immune to central bank meddling.

pc86 9y ago

It seems to be working pretty well for China, and certain people within North Korea.