4 ms·

Except that we know for a fact that the Greeks themselves preserved, and translated these sources. As part of the active trade, and religious ties with the West

Except that we know for a fact that the Greeks themselves preserved, and translated these sources. As part of the active trade, and religious ties with the West.

danielam 9y ago
I am not aware of Aristotle's works surviving among the Greeks. Islamic scholars are credited with the preservation of his works and their reintroduction to the West. EDIT: A downvote? How about a source instead?
- mkempe 9y ago
  Exaggeratedly credited so. While the works of some scholars in the Moslem world did contribute to the preliminary path towards the European Renaissance, their contribution was neither essential nor crucial. Byzantine monks and scholars regularly traveled and taught in Europe over the entire duration of the Eastern Roman Empire. For example, one of the first archbishops of Canterbury, Theodore of Tarsus (602-690), was a Greek educated in Byzantium. The rediscovery and veneration of Ancient Greek philosophy and science was not caused by a new-found ability to read Ancient Greek texts -- but by a new inclination to respect reason, which had last reigned in full glory during Ancient Greece. Reference: "The Aristotle Adventure: A Guide to the Greek, Arabic, and Latin Scholars who Transmitted Aristotle's Logic to the Renaissance"
  - danielam 9y ago
    I was specifically writing about the works of Aristotle. Also: [1] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/medieval-philosophy/index.html#note-21 https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/medieval-philosophy/index... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_of_the_Greek_Classics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_of_the_Greek_Clas...
    - mkempe 9y ago
      I gave you a reference to a scholarly book that traces the path of Aristotle's most crucial work through the ages, instrumental in triggering the Renaissance. The links you provide support my argument, although they incorrectly claim that knowledge of the Greek language and Greek texts themselves at some point almost disappeared from the West. This is false. For instance Pépin le Bref, father of Carolus Magnus (Charles the Great) petitioned pope Paul I and was gifted a large collection of Greek works including a copy of Aristotle's works, as well as access to a contingent of translators (over the centuries Byzantine monks regularly travelled to Italy, teaching Greek and bringing Greek works with them). The Carolingians did not primarily rely on Arabic texts to access the Greek works, and those who did initially use these texts quickly turned to original Greek copies for the sake of quality and completeness. One of the key Latin translations of Aristotle's works in the 12th century was made directly from Greek by Iacobus Veneticus Graecus (James of Venice) who studied in Constantinople; that translation was the one read by Albertus Magnus and Thomas Aquinas.

Except that we know for a fact that the Greeks themselves preserved, and translated these sources. As part of the active trade, and religious ties with the West.

danielam 9y ago

I am not aware of Aristotle's works surviving among the Greeks. Islamic scholars are credited with the preservation of his works and their reintroduction to the West. EDIT: A downvote? How about a source instead?

mkempe 9y ago
Exaggeratedly credited so. While the works of some scholars in the Moslem world did contribute to the preliminary path towards the European Renaissance, their contribution was neither essential nor crucial. Byzantine monks and scholars regularly traveled and taught in Europe over the entire duration of the Eastern Roman Empire. For example, one of the first archbishops of Canterbury, Theodore of Tarsus (602-690), was a Greek educated in Byzantium. The rediscovery and veneration of Ancient Greek philosophy and science was not caused by a new-found ability to read Ancient Greek texts -- but by a new inclination to respect reason, which had last reigned in full glory during Ancient Greece. Reference: "The Aristotle Adventure: A Guide to the Greek, Arabic, and Latin Scholars who Transmitted Aristotle's Logic to the Renaissance"
- danielam 9y ago
  I was specifically writing about the works of Aristotle. Also: [1] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/medieval-philosophy/index.html#note-21 https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/medieval-philosophy/index... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_of_the_Greek_Classics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_of_the_Greek_Clas...
  - mkempe 9y ago
    I gave you a reference to a scholarly book that traces the path of Aristotle's most crucial work through the ages, instrumental in triggering the Renaissance. The links you provide support my argument, although they incorrectly claim that knowledge of the Greek language and Greek texts themselves at some point almost disappeared from the West. This is false. For instance Pépin le Bref, father of Carolus Magnus (Charles the Great) petitioned pope Paul I and was gifted a large collection of Greek works including a copy of Aristotle's works, as well as access to a contingent of translators (over the centuries Byzantine monks regularly travelled to Italy, teaching Greek and bringing Greek works with them). The Carolingians did not primarily rely on Arabic texts to access the Greek works, and those who did initially use these texts quickly turned to original Greek copies for the sake of quality and completeness. One of the key Latin translations of Aristotle's works in the 12th century was made directly from Greek by Iacobus Veneticus Graecus (James of Venice) who studied in Constantinople; that translation was the one read by Albertus Magnus and Thomas Aquinas.