4 ms·

> The Independent has contacted Apple for comment but none had arrived at the time of publication. Not sure why you would expect a comment from Apple when an o

by fhood 9y ago

> The Independent has contacted Apple for comment but none had arrived at the time of publication. Not sure why you would expect a comment from Apple when an off-brand chinese (I assume) charger turned out to be unsafe.

ct0 9y ago
clicks, for the clicks
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
Raphmedia 9y ago
My charger that came with the Macbook Air 2011 is heavily frayed. I could see it happening with genuine cables. Not my photo but mine is very similar: https://i.snag.gy/9xXhyf.jpg https://i.snag.gy/9xXhyf.jpg
- StavrosK 9y ago
  No, because Apple chargers are extremely well-designed and those cables only ever carry 12V. No-name chargers usually have sub-millimeter separation between the high- and low-voltage circuits so voltage can jump between them, electrocuting you with 110 (or 220) volts. That's why I never ever buy no-name mains devices any more.
- Gracana 9y ago
  The other failure you need for this to happen is a line-to-output short, which is unlikely to happen in Apple's chargers, which are very well built.
  - Raphmedia 9y ago
    Unlikely but possible. Even if the odds are very low, it's bound to happen at some points. This is the first time I hear about an electrocution from a charging cable, it happened to one girl out of millions of users. That's someone being very unlucky. We also don't know the details of where that cable was plugged into. Some electrical wiring out there is pretty wild.
    - wlesieutre 9y ago
      Things can be designed with large enough safety margins that "unlikely but possible" is effectively "never going to happen." If it's unlikely enough, you're up in "electrons could quantum tunnel through the insulation and electrocute someone" territory. It could happen, but I'm pretty comfortable assuming that it won't. For an example in a similar vein, power grids send electricity around at voltages that are well outside what the wiring in your house (or anything plugged into it) is designed to handle. The primary side of a distribution transformer (the cylinders you see on utility poles) is something like 13,000-25,000 volts. I've never heard of that getting shorted into the secondary side with 25 kV being put into the residential power system. If you look at the teardown/comparison between genuine and counterfeit power supplies (linked in other comment), I'd absolutely believe that with a large number of those adapters in use it would eventually kill someone. The high voltage side is poorly isolated and they went so far as including a fake grounding pin that isn't even connected to ground. But a well designed switching power supply is designed to not kill you. It's scary to think that some people have these counterfeits and don't realize it's not a genuine power cord. That's the real risk here that needs to be dealt with.
      - Raphmedia 9y ago
        Meant "Unlikely but possible" as in there was a reverse miracle going on. Some incongruous sequence of event like a lightning hitting the wiring. The electricity coming from an illegal wiring (DIY directly from a random pole). The wiring of the house was FUBAR and following no regulations. The humidity level was low enough to allow sparks. The wire was completely frayed and fully wrapped around the child. The child was sleeping in a wet bed. Something VERY unlikely but possible. I'm not putting the blame on Apple but I don't understand why everyone assume that it's completely impossible that this could have been a genuine charger.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- simias 9y ago
  You can't electrocute yourself with the voltage in a phone charger. You have to have an isolation problem in the transformer for something like that to happen. Not that Apple's cables are not trash for fraying so easily (a ridiculous case of form over function) but that's not the issue here.
- wlesieutre 9y ago
  The difference is that those cables only carry low voltage DC. To get line voltage AC on them you'd need a short inside the power brick bridging from one side of the rectifier to the other. Apple is very careful to isolate those two sides. Knockoff chargers, not so much. See this teardown comparing a genuine Macbook charger with a counterfeit version: http://www.righto.com/2016/03/counterfeit-macbook-charger-teardown.html http://www.righto.com/2016/03/counterfeit-macbook-charger-te... High voltage and low voltage should be separated by a safety gap of at least 4mm (to simplify the UL's creepage and clearance rules). On the circuit board below, the high voltage input section is at the bottom and the low voltage output section is at the top. On the right half of the board, the two sections are separated by a large gap, which is good. On the left, there should be a gap (bridged by the optoisolator). Unfortunately, traces and components pass through this area making the gap dangerously small, under 1 mm. Any moisture or loose solder could bridge this gap sending high voltage to the output.
  - dingaling 9y ago
    Any particular reason that the regs just require and air gap and not a solid insulation barrier?
slumberlust 9y ago
Their pockets are deeper.

by fhood 9y ago

ct0 9y ago

clicks, for the clicks

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

Raphmedia 9y ago

My charger that came with the Macbook Air 2011 is heavily frayed. I could see it happening with genuine cables. Not my photo but mine is very similar: https://i.snag.gy/9xXhyf.jpg https://i.snag.gy/9xXhyf.jpg

StavrosK 9y ago
No, because Apple chargers are extremely well-designed and those cables only ever carry 12V. No-name chargers usually have sub-millimeter separation between the high- and low-voltage circuits so voltage can jump between them, electrocuting you with 110 (or 220) volts. That's why I never ever buy no-name mains devices any more.
Gracana 9y ago
The other failure you need for this to happen is a line-to-output short, which is unlikely to happen in Apple's chargers, which are very well built.
- Raphmedia 9y ago
  Unlikely but possible. Even if the odds are very low, it's bound to happen at some points. This is the first time I hear about an electrocution from a charging cable, it happened to one girl out of millions of users. That's someone being very unlucky. We also don't know the details of where that cable was plugged into. Some electrical wiring out there is pretty wild.
  - wlesieutre 9y ago
    Things can be designed with large enough safety margins that "unlikely but possible" is effectively "never going to happen." If it's unlikely enough, you're up in "electrons could quantum tunnel through the insulation and electrocute someone" territory. It could happen, but I'm pretty comfortable assuming that it won't. For an example in a similar vein, power grids send electricity around at voltages that are well outside what the wiring in your house (or anything plugged into it) is designed to handle. The primary side of a distribution transformer (the cylinders you see on utility poles) is something like 13,000-25,000 volts. I've never heard of that getting shorted into the secondary side with 25 kV being put into the residential power system. If you look at the teardown/comparison between genuine and counterfeit power supplies (linked in other comment), I'd absolutely believe that with a large number of those adapters in use it would eventually kill someone. The high voltage side is poorly isolated and they went so far as including a fake grounding pin that isn't even connected to ground. But a well designed switching power supply is designed to not kill you. It's scary to think that some people have these counterfeits and don't realize it's not a genuine power cord. That's the real risk here that needs to be dealt with.
    - Raphmedia 9y ago
      Meant "Unlikely but possible" as in there was a reverse miracle going on. Some incongruous sequence of event like a lightning hitting the wiring. The electricity coming from an illegal wiring (DIY directly from a random pole). The wiring of the house was FUBAR and following no regulations. The humidity level was low enough to allow sparks. The wire was completely frayed and fully wrapped around the child. The child was sleeping in a wet bed. Something VERY unlikely but possible. I'm not putting the blame on Apple but I don't understand why everyone assume that it's completely impossible that this could have been a genuine charger.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
simias 9y ago
You can't electrocute yourself with the voltage in a phone charger. You have to have an isolation problem in the transformer for something like that to happen. Not that Apple's cables are not trash for fraying so easily (a ridiculous case of form over function) but that's not the issue here.
wlesieutre 9y ago
The difference is that those cables only carry low voltage DC. To get line voltage AC on them you'd need a short inside the power brick bridging from one side of the rectifier to the other. Apple is very careful to isolate those two sides. Knockoff chargers, not so much. See this teardown comparing a genuine Macbook charger with a counterfeit version: http://www.righto.com/2016/03/counterfeit-macbook-charger-teardown.html http://www.righto.com/2016/03/counterfeit-macbook-charger-te... High voltage and low voltage should be separated by a safety gap of at least 4mm (to simplify the UL's creepage and clearance rules). On the circuit board below, the high voltage input section is at the bottom and the low voltage output section is at the top. On the right half of the board, the two sections are separated by a large gap, which is good. On the left, there should be a gap (bridged by the optoisolator). Unfortunately, traces and components pass through this area making the gap dangerously small, under 1 mm. Any moisture or loose solder could bridge this gap sending high voltage to the output.
- dingaling 9y ago
  Any particular reason that the regs just require and air gap and not a solid insulation barrier?

slumberlust 9y ago

Their pockets are deeper.