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> I have a drawer full of stock option paperwork from various start ups I’ve worked with over my career Ditto, but I’ve also had two good success stories in my

> I have a drawer full of stock option paperwork from various start ups I’ve worked with over my career Ditto, but I’ve also had two good success stories in my career too. > At this point I feel like anyone who chooses stock options over cash is naive, delusional, or misled. Why does everyone think it’s an either / or scenario? I’ve negotiated to have both more than once, salary at where I feel I should be and options/RSU where it might be a very nice bonus at a future date. Don’t be afraid to say no and keep looking if a company is taking advantage of you. I realize it’s hard sometimes, but the folks on HN generally can have the upper hand negotiating as tech employees are in such demand.

colinbartlett 9y ago
I'm fortunate that I recognized early the negotiating position I had, and each one of those worthless pieces of paper came with what I would consider a generous, above market salary. But I worry that many new to the industry are selling themselves short with an "or" and not realizing that an "and" is possible.
- jsjohnst 9y ago
  Agree completely. I got bit early in my career, which is why I try to help as many as I can who are early in their career now.
- sidlls 9y ago
  Well, an "and" is possible to the extent that there isn't a sufficient supply of people thinking "or" competing for the job. There are a number of self-imposed mechanisms that put downward pressure on compensation for developers. Willingness to take what are effectively lottery tickets and rationalizing it as discounted or future potential earnings is one of them.
padobson 9y ago
This. Your salary should ALWAYS be the highest possible salary the market can support. Equity or options compensation at a startup should be used to defray the risk of the company failing in the near and midterm. So if Google is offering you $100k, then you should be asking Startup X for $100k plus equity.
- CalChris 9y ago
  As an early employee, I have taken less than market (like a third less) along with a 0.1% equity option. That aligned my interests with those of the company. If starting a company I would offer the same.
  - azinman2 9y ago
    0.1% isn’t much. You’d need a billion dollar exit to make that 0.1% turn into something super significant.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
    - CalChris 9y ago
      At .1% you're roughly employee 100. Yes, everyone involved at that point should be looking for a billion dollar exit.
  - s73ver_ 9y ago
    Would you offer those as preferred shares, with a non-dilution clause in there? Otherwise I don't see how that's just pushing risk onto the employee for no gain.
    - CalChris 9y ago
      Neither founders nor employees ever get an anti-dilution clause, or at least, I've never heard of this. VCs would simply hate it. Founders and employees get common and are last on the liquidation preference list. Anti-dilution is usually for A or B rounds against a possible later round. A cap (I hate caps) is a form of anti-dilution. None of this is available to employees at least that I've ever heard of. As a founder I'd never expect it from a VC nor would I ever give it to employees. Founders can get something called Series FF that grants them a supermajority of voting which allows them to retain control even as they give up their majority. You have to do really well in the seed round to get it in A. I think Larry+Sergey got this.

colinbartlett 9y ago

I'm fortunate that I recognized early the negotiating position I had, and each one of those worthless pieces of paper came with what I would consider a generous, above market salary. But I worry that many new to the industry are selling themselves short with an "or" and not realizing that an "and" is possible.

jsjohnst 9y ago
Agree completely. I got bit early in my career, which is why I try to help as many as I can who are early in their career now.
sidlls 9y ago
Well, an "and" is possible to the extent that there isn't a sufficient supply of people thinking "or" competing for the job. There are a number of self-imposed mechanisms that put downward pressure on compensation for developers. Willingness to take what are effectively lottery tickets and rationalizing it as discounted or future potential earnings is one of them.

padobson 9y ago

This. Your salary should ALWAYS be the highest possible salary the market can support. Equity or options compensation at a startup should be used to defray the risk of the company failing in the near and midterm. So if Google is offering you $100k, then you should be asking Startup X for $100k plus equity.

CalChris 9y ago
As an early employee, I have taken less than market (like a third less) along with a 0.1% equity option. That aligned my interests with those of the company. If starting a company I would offer the same.
- azinman2 9y ago
  0.1% isn’t much. You’d need a billion dollar exit to make that 0.1% turn into something super significant.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - CalChris 9y ago
    At .1% you're roughly employee 100. Yes, everyone involved at that point should be looking for a billion dollar exit.
- s73ver_ 9y ago
  Would you offer those as preferred shares, with a non-dilution clause in there? Otherwise I don't see how that's just pushing risk onto the employee for no gain.
  - CalChris 9y ago
    Neither founders nor employees ever get an anti-dilution clause, or at least, I've never heard of this. VCs would simply hate it. Founders and employees get common and are last on the liquidation preference list. Anti-dilution is usually for A or B rounds against a possible later round. A cap (I hate caps) is a form of anti-dilution. None of this is available to employees at least that I've ever heard of. As a founder I'd never expect it from a VC nor would I ever give it to employees. Founders can get something called Series FF that grants them a supermajority of voting which allows them to retain control even as they give up their majority. You have to do really well in the seed round to get it in A. I think Larry+Sergey got this.