5 ms·

It's always a matter of degree, though. If someone grabs a boob, then one time is way too many and they need to go. If they say "Hey guys,..." and someone expre

It's always a matter of degree, though. If someone grabs a boob, then one time is way too many and they need to go. If they say "Hey guys,..." and someone expresses discomfort with the genderedness of the phrase, a few warnings are warranted; different people will have different feelings about whether such a thing is ever enough to fire someone, and that's valid. The middle ground is where thickness of skin comes in, and while it's not on you to buy in to your employer's standard, it is on the employer to set a standard. In that respect, I don't think Tesla has been very clear here. I have no idea from this article where the actual line is.

phaemon 9y ago
> "Hey guys,..." and someone expresses discomfort with the genderedness of the phrase Is "guys" still gendered? I thought it was used to refer to any group of people, male or female, pretty much since the days of "Friends".
- parenthephobia 9y ago
  Humpty Dumpty was half right[1]. Words mean what the speaker thinks they mean, but they also mean what the listener thinks they mean, which might not be the same thing. The essence of clear communication is to align these two viewpoints. Guys is gendered if you think it is. I've lightly offended groups of women in the past - well after Friends started! - by referring to them as "guys". Once is a miscommunication. To continue to call them guys even after they've said they don't like being called guys would be indistinguishable from intentionally causing offence, especially considering the ready availability of other words that serve the same linguistic purpose. [1] http://www.bartleby.com/73/2019.html http://www.bartleby.com/73/2019.html
- ewjordan 9y ago
  I try to avoid it when I can because one female colleague commented on it (not sure if it was related to my uses or someone else's because prior to this I never noticed it, but she brought it to HR). As a guy I feel like it's a "meh" issue, and most of the women I know agree and use the phrase themselves, but if it bugs someone it costs me zero to avoid it.
- kortex 9y ago
  I'm trying to bring back "cats". It's gender neutral, and implies coolness to whom you are referring to. And we are coming up on the 20's again.
mirko22 9y ago
> genderedness of the phrase, a few warnings are warranted Are you serious? You are comparing physical harassment against your body with freedom of speech? Wow... No, it does not warrant a warning. Otherwise we can get offended by random stuff and blame it on others. Plus guys and lads are used for all genders in some countries.
- Sohcahtoa82 9y ago
  You don't have freedom of speech in the workplace.

phaemon 9y ago

> "Hey guys,..." and someone expresses discomfort with the genderedness of the phrase Is "guys" still gendered? I thought it was used to refer to any group of people, male or female, pretty much since the days of "Friends".

parenthephobia 9y ago
Humpty Dumpty was half right[1]. Words mean what the speaker thinks they mean, but they also mean what the listener thinks they mean, which might not be the same thing. The essence of clear communication is to align these two viewpoints. Guys is gendered if you think it is. I've lightly offended groups of women in the past - well after Friends started! - by referring to them as "guys". Once is a miscommunication. To continue to call them guys even after they've said they don't like being called guys would be indistinguishable from intentionally causing offence, especially considering the ready availability of other words that serve the same linguistic purpose. [1] http://www.bartleby.com/73/2019.html http://www.bartleby.com/73/2019.html
ewjordan 9y ago
I try to avoid it when I can because one female colleague commented on it (not sure if it was related to my uses or someone else's because prior to this I never noticed it, but she brought it to HR). As a guy I feel like it's a "meh" issue, and most of the women I know agree and use the phrase themselves, but if it bugs someone it costs me zero to avoid it.
kortex 9y ago
I'm trying to bring back "cats". It's gender neutral, and implies coolness to whom you are referring to. And we are coming up on the 20's again.

mirko22 9y ago

> genderedness of the phrase, a few warnings are warranted Are you serious? You are comparing physical harassment against your body with freedom of speech? Wow... No, it does not warrant a warning. Otherwise we can get offended by random stuff and blame it on others. Plus guys and lads are used for all genders in some countries.

Sohcahtoa82 9y ago
You don't have freedom of speech in the workplace.