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Churches provide services to communities far exceeding 70 billion. Trying to judge churches on what some fringe groups and politicians do is short-sighted.

by gscott 9y ago

civilitty 9y ago
We're talking about the United States so that's at least a third of the electorate, one that has an over sized influence on politics due to a combination of gerrymandering and voter suppression. These aren't some "fringe groups and politicians" but the prevailing religious ideology of the party in power across all three branches of governments. The American protestant churches are to Christianity what the Society of Saint Pius X is to the Roman Catholic Church and it's a big enough group of people that it can stand judgement on its own. As for the services churches provide - the whole point of taxes is pooling capital that the government can use to more efficiently provide far better services to its constituents than any non-governmental organization can. If the churches were actually capable of providing those services beyond largely superficial displays of charity and piety, we wouldn't need government to begin with.
- gscott 9y ago
  If Government was capable of this it would be great. In San Diego they are putting up 3 tents for homeless at a cost of six million dollars. Wasting money is no problem for the Government. On the otherhand the San Diego Interfaith shelter project uses 70 local churches to shelter the homeless http://interfaithshelter.org/ http://interfaithshelter.org/
walkingolof 9y ago
That service should be provided by the government, not a privileged special interest group.
- eksu 9y ago
  The government should be providing a sense of community and belief system?
  - icebraining 9y ago
    So they need $70B to provide a sense of community and belief system?
    - gscott 9y ago
      They already indoctrinate children with a belief system through public schools. Liberal types are going crazy over charter schools where children get a better education but less indoctrination (both of my children have gone to public schools and charter schools). Another 70 billion to do more of this? I don't think so.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- tete 9y ago
  I agree, however as someone coming from Europe I don't think that's easily possible. The US seems to require means that don't sound socialist/communist to some people. A lot of investment and subsidization into common good seems to go the route through lowered or absence of taxes and other laws (non profits, churches, etc.) and military (either research, that is later released to the public, and that's not just GPS or infrastructure and services, welfare, education for the poor, if they join the military). To me it seems that both churches and military investment (in the very broad) are essential and integral for the stability of the US. I think whether this should be changed is debatable, however I don't think this can be done over night, as it would destroy said stability. Even if a majority could be gained for such a project I think it would have to be a very slow process, as so many other things are built on this foundation and many things seem to have been optimized for this system over time. However, I am not an expert by any means and just rely on what I see, hear and think when I compare it with Europe. The only thing I have learned is that telling people to do it like others isn't something that can just be done - while keeping some stability that is.
  - lostboys67 9y ago
    Germany has tithe taxes that supports churches
lordfoom 9y ago
>Churches provide services to communities far exceeding 70 billion. Nah.

Churches provide services to communities far exceeding 70 billion. Trying to judge churches on what some fringe groups and politicians do is short-sighted.

by gscott 9y ago

Churches provide services to communities far exceeding 70 billion. Trying to judge churches on what some fringe groups and politicians do is short-sighted.

civilitty 9y ago

We're talking about the United States so that's at least a third of the electorate, one that has an over sized influence on politics due to a combination of gerrymandering and voter suppression. These aren't some "fringe groups and politicians" but the prevailing religious ideology of the party in power across all three branches of governments. The American protestant churches are to Christianity what the Society of Saint Pius X is to the Roman Catholic Church and it's a big enough group of people that it can stand judgement on its own. As for the services churches provide - the whole point of taxes is pooling capital that the government can use to more efficiently provide far better services to its constituents than any non-governmental organization can. If the churches were actually capable of providing those services beyond largely superficial displays of charity and piety, we wouldn't need government to begin with.

gscott 9y ago
If Government was capable of this it would be great. In San Diego they are putting up 3 tents for homeless at a cost of six million dollars. Wasting money is no problem for the Government. On the otherhand the San Diego Interfaith shelter project uses 70 local churches to shelter the homeless http://interfaithshelter.org/ http://interfaithshelter.org/

walkingolof 9y ago

That service should be provided by the government, not a privileged special interest group.

eksu 9y ago
The government should be providing a sense of community and belief system?
- icebraining 9y ago
  So they need $70B to provide a sense of community and belief system?
  - gscott 9y ago
    They already indoctrinate children with a belief system through public schools. Liberal types are going crazy over charter schools where children get a better education but less indoctrination (both of my children have gone to public schools and charter schools). Another 70 billion to do more of this? I don't think so.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
tete 9y ago
I agree, however as someone coming from Europe I don't think that's easily possible. The US seems to require means that don't sound socialist/communist to some people. A lot of investment and subsidization into common good seems to go the route through lowered or absence of taxes and other laws (non profits, churches, etc.) and military (either research, that is later released to the public, and that's not just GPS or infrastructure and services, welfare, education for the poor, if they join the military). To me it seems that both churches and military investment (in the very broad) are essential and integral for the stability of the US. I think whether this should be changed is debatable, however I don't think this can be done over night, as it would destroy said stability. Even if a majority could be gained for such a project I think it would have to be a very slow process, as so many other things are built on this foundation and many things seem to have been optimized for this system over time. However, I am not an expert by any means and just rely on what I see, hear and think when I compare it with Europe. The only thing I have learned is that telling people to do it like others isn't something that can just be done - while keeping some stability that is.
- lostboys67 9y ago
  Germany has tithe taxes that supports churches

lordfoom 9y ago

>Churches provide services to communities far exceeding 70 billion. Nah.