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Came into this not knowing what to expect, and recently I’ve had some mixed feelings about Tesla, but wow what an awesome statement. Honestly it was just so...

by Top19 9y ago

Came into this not knowing what to expect, and recently I’ve had some mixed feelings about Tesla, but wow what an awesome statement. Honestly it was just so...authentic. They described very exactly what happened, what the accusations were, what the consequences were for those involved, what concerned them as a company, etc. It has none of the corporate double-speak that you would expect if this were Equifax.

forapurpose 9y ago
How can we tell if it's authentic without independently knowing what the truth is? There are many, many people who are good at sounding convincing while being dishonest. Human beings have very limited capability to discern the truth based on presentation, and IMHO one of our greatest weaknesses is that most of us believe we're secretly good at it.
- dba7dba 9y ago
  First time hearing about this. Seeing the first 5 bullet points was enough for me to pretty safely guess this is much about a lawyer out for $$ from Tesla. Especially this: The trial lawyer who filed this lawsuit has a long track record of extorting money for meritless claims and using the threat of media attacks and expensive trial costs to get companies to settle. At Tesla, we would rather pay ten times the settlement demand in legal fees and fight to the ends of the Earth than give in to extortion and allow this abuse of the legal system. The lawyer apparently forgot that Tesla/Elon can easily hire a few dozen lawyers without any strain... IMHO the lawyer in this case === Patent Troll Lawyers
- Brotkrumen 9y ago
  While you are right in that we tend to form opinions based on limited information, I'd say in this case it is likely to be warranted. What I try to look out for are statements that are easily disproven by the other side if false. No highly paid PR person would release those, thus if they are there, they're likely to be true. Now with those easily disproven claims in this press release as cornerstones of what is the truth, I can't come up with data points that would drastically alter my conclusion. Now all that's left to do is hope that that isn't due to my limited imagination and wait for the opposition to make new claims or disprove the points made.
- jfoutz 9y ago
  If it’s not true the lawsuit will be really expensive .
- darawk 9y ago
  We can tell that the tone is authentic. The language doesn't hedge. It makes clear, verifiable claims about the facts of the situation. If they are lying, we will almost certainly find out in the trial process. An inauthentic message would be one that hedges and avoids making specific, falsifiable claims. We perceive this tone as authentic because it makes claims that an uncertain or lying PR department wouldn't have the nerve, authority, or legal standing to make. In that way, it is an unforgeable signal. Of course it's possible to forge in the moment, but then it makes your situation 100x worse when you inevitably get called out later. Which is why people afraid of being called out later can't do it.
  - watwut 9y ago
    How do you know the tone is authentic? People who lie are very good at looking confident. That is how it works. And being totally certain about whether fuzzy incident happened/not happened usually means you are aware of peoples bias toward looking confident - or that you jumped to conclusion without really investigating all the conflicting evidence.
    - darawk 9y ago
      Like I said, in my original comment, if you are a rational actor and you did mess up in a circumstance like this, you have two options: You can own up to it, or you can lie. If you're going to lie, you have two options: Use vague language and make fuzzy assertions, or confidently, directly, and clearly make counter-claims. If you were at fault, and there is a pending legal case, pursuing option two will inevitably lead to your exposure not only for the original wrongdoing, but for lying about it later. Any rational actor evaluating their options would play this through and realize this. Therefore, we can conclude either Elon is so divorced from reality that he doesn't care about the obvious negative consequences, or, that he is being authentic in his messaging here. And while Elon certainly may be off in his own little world in a number of ways, I personally don't think he's crazy enough to outright lie in a message like this.
      - watwut 9y ago
- saas_co_de 9y ago
  > How can we tell if it's authentic without independently knowing what the truth is Well, if it is in a corporate press release you can certainly KNOW that it is NOT authentic.
iamthirsty 9y ago
From the post: > that being a jerk is not allowed This made me take it in a much more casual way, as they didn't load it with PR speak for sure. Gave much more credibility — like it wasn't written by lawyers.
- cup-of-tea 9y ago
  > like it wasn't written by lawyers Like it wasn't, but it was.
  - aerovistae 9y ago
    I doubt it. It sounds a little too much like Elon.
    - rusk 9y ago
      That's good lawyers for you!
    - squarefoot 9y ago
      It probably was deeply scrutinized before publishing, just to be sure it doesn't contain six lines that could have Musk "hanged".
    - kakarot 9y ago
      Except the author mentioned Elon in the third person, and I don't think he would intentionally misdirect like that.
      - dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
        Why? He could very well write it from the POV of the company, distancing himself - in this case using the third person is nothing unusual.
        kakarot 9y ago
        It stands against all reason and intuition that this would be the case. There is no evidence to support the theory.
lostboys67 9y ago
Yes and as an ex branch secretary in the UK (head of a union branch) something looked off about this it was a good case why was not the UAW doing this.
saas_co_de 9y ago
> conflicting accusations and counter-accusations between several African-American and Hispanic individuals So, they are blaming the minority groups for all of the alleged racism. Pretty bold approach in the current political climate.

by Top19 9y ago

forapurpose 9y ago

How can we tell if it's authentic without independently knowing what the truth is? There are many, many people who are good at sounding convincing while being dishonest. Human beings have very limited capability to discern the truth based on presentation, and IMHO one of our greatest weaknesses is that most of us believe we're secretly good at it.

dba7dba 9y ago
First time hearing about this. Seeing the first 5 bullet points was enough for me to pretty safely guess this is much about a lawyer out for $$ from Tesla. Especially this: The trial lawyer who filed this lawsuit has a long track record of extorting money for meritless claims and using the threat of media attacks and expensive trial costs to get companies to settle. At Tesla, we would rather pay ten times the settlement demand in legal fees and fight to the ends of the Earth than give in to extortion and allow this abuse of the legal system. The lawyer apparently forgot that Tesla/Elon can easily hire a few dozen lawyers without any strain... IMHO the lawyer in this case === Patent Troll Lawyers
Brotkrumen 9y ago
While you are right in that we tend to form opinions based on limited information, I'd say in this case it is likely to be warranted. What I try to look out for are statements that are easily disproven by the other side if false. No highly paid PR person would release those, thus if they are there, they're likely to be true. Now with those easily disproven claims in this press release as cornerstones of what is the truth, I can't come up with data points that would drastically alter my conclusion. Now all that's left to do is hope that that isn't due to my limited imagination and wait for the opposition to make new claims or disprove the points made.
jfoutz 9y ago
If it’s not true the lawsuit will be really expensive .
darawk 9y ago
We can tell that the tone is authentic. The language doesn't hedge. It makes clear, verifiable claims about the facts of the situation. If they are lying, we will almost certainly find out in the trial process. An inauthentic message would be one that hedges and avoids making specific, falsifiable claims. We perceive this tone as authentic because it makes claims that an uncertain or lying PR department wouldn't have the nerve, authority, or legal standing to make. In that way, it is an unforgeable signal. Of course it's possible to forge in the moment, but then it makes your situation 100x worse when you inevitably get called out later. Which is why people afraid of being called out later can't do it.
- watwut 9y ago
  How do you know the tone is authentic? People who lie are very good at looking confident. That is how it works. And being totally certain about whether fuzzy incident happened/not happened usually means you are aware of peoples bias toward looking confident - or that you jumped to conclusion without really investigating all the conflicting evidence.
  - darawk 9y ago
    Like I said, in my original comment, if you are a rational actor and you did mess up in a circumstance like this, you have two options: You can own up to it, or you can lie. If you're going to lie, you have two options: Use vague language and make fuzzy assertions, or confidently, directly, and clearly make counter-claims. If you were at fault, and there is a pending legal case, pursuing option two will inevitably lead to your exposure not only for the original wrongdoing, but for lying about it later. Any rational actor evaluating their options would play this through and realize this. Therefore, we can conclude either Elon is so divorced from reality that he doesn't care about the obvious negative consequences, or, that he is being authentic in his messaging here. And while Elon certainly may be off in his own little world in a number of ways, I personally don't think he's crazy enough to outright lie in a message like this.
    - watwut 9y ago
saas_co_de 9y ago
> How can we tell if it's authentic without independently knowing what the truth is Well, if it is in a corporate press release you can certainly KNOW that it is NOT authentic.

iamthirsty 9y ago

From the post: > that being a jerk is not allowed This made me take it in a much more casual way, as they didn't load it with PR speak for sure. Gave much more credibility — like it wasn't written by lawyers.

cup-of-tea 9y ago
> like it wasn't written by lawyers Like it wasn't, but it was.
- aerovistae 9y ago
  I doubt it. It sounds a little too much like Elon.
  - rusk 9y ago
    That's good lawyers for you!
  - squarefoot 9y ago
    It probably was deeply scrutinized before publishing, just to be sure it doesn't contain six lines that could have Musk "hanged".
  - kakarot 9y ago
    Except the author mentioned Elon in the third person, and I don't think he would intentionally misdirect like that.
    - dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
      Why? He could very well write it from the POV of the company, distancing himself - in this case using the third person is nothing unusual.
      - kakarot 9y ago
        It stands against all reason and intuition that this would be the case. There is no evidence to support the theory.

lostboys67 9y ago

Yes and as an ex branch secretary in the UK (head of a union branch) something looked off about this it was a good case why was not the UAW doing this.

saas_co_de 9y ago

> conflicting accusations and counter-accusations between several African-American and Hispanic individuals So, they are blaming the minority groups for all of the alleged racism. Pretty bold approach in the current political climate.