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Yeah, same here. I'm not willing to stick my neck out for putting tech money into progressive causes (or conservative causes, for that matter). I'm willing to s

Yeah, same here. I'm not willing to stick my neck out for putting tech money into progressive causes (or conservative causes, for that matter). I'm willing to stick my neck out for better working conditions, retirement plans, professionalism standards, and fairness in equity compensation.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
eropple 9y ago
And do you think that you can really do that without working with other people? I'm not the biggest fan of Tech Solidarity, but they understand, at least, that we (folks who work, as opposed to folks who own) are more in it together than we're not. Labor history bears this out; they can read a map.
- ThrustVectoring 9y ago
  Of course not. I simply recognize that pushing political agendas both alienates natural economic allies, and opens the door to co-opting the organization for things of no benefit to tech workers as a class. Like, I don't give a fuck if people understand broad overarching concepts of solidarity and togetherness. Maybe I'm just a huge sperg, but what I want is concrete work on making tech work better. Make a flyer explaining stock compensation and how shady employers will structure things to screw you over, and publicize the shit out of it so that employers can't claim ignorance. Name-and-shame employers for having equity compensation terms so bad that they grants are effectively worthless. Something.
pjc50 9y ago
> I'm willing to stick my neck out for better working conditions, retirement plans, professionalism standards, and fairness in equity compensation. That is a progressive cause, no?
- krakensden 9y ago
  No, we're too rich.
- lmm 9y ago
  Traditionally yes, but it's not one that modern progressives seem to have much interest in.
- fortythirteen 9y ago
  Progressives like to think they're the only ones who care about that when, in reality, everyone except the strictest libertarian wants all of those things. What frustrates me personally is the inability of many progressives to rationalize anything other than Marxist/socialist means for those ends and then act as if everyone who doesn't believe in those means doesn't share those end goals.
  - pjc50 9y ago
    > rationalize anything other than Marxist/socialist means What does this actually mean?
    - fortythirteen 9y ago
      Using tech industry working conditions as an example, progressives, on average, see the solution in unionizing (more bureaucracy, and the key breeding grounds for Bolshevik-like movements). They tend to dismiss the more incentive-based approach of ending the abuse of the H1-B system, which is the key market driver for artificially low wages and poorer working conditions. This is because doing so is at odds with the post-modernist ideal of a borderless society.
      - chimeracoder 9y ago
        > This is because doing so is at odds with the post-modernist ideal of a borderless society. nit: "a borderless society" is compatible with postmodernist framing, but it is not the necessary outcome of one. Postmodernism is a category of schools of though, not a single one, and so some schools of postmodernism advocate a borderless society, but others are opposed to it.
crdoconnor 9y ago
It's not politics if there isn't horse trading. Single issue pressure groups that do not form alliances with other groups do not achieve anything meaningful.
- ThrustVectoring 9y ago
  It's not horse trading if the very first thing you try to do is try to help out other groups. That's not forming alliances, that's selling your organization into chattel slavery. Find the points where some dedicated work can help out tech workers as a class and push on them. Then once you have something worth trading for, sell it dearly and hold out for something worthwhile. IMO something like a volunteer writer to put out educational material relevant to working conditions in tech is probably the best bang-for-buck. Teach people how and why to job-hop and negotiate, make it concise, informative, and helpful, and put up a standard link to organization and request to sign up for the mailing list. Bog-standard growth-hacking, except peddling a professional organization rather than some startup's SaaS product.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

eropple 9y ago

And do you think that you can really do that without working with other people? I'm not the biggest fan of Tech Solidarity, but they understand, at least, that we (folks who work, as opposed to folks who own) are more in it together than we're not. Labor history bears this out; they can read a map.

ThrustVectoring 9y ago
Of course not. I simply recognize that pushing political agendas both alienates natural economic allies, and opens the door to co-opting the organization for things of no benefit to tech workers as a class. Like, I don't give a fuck if people understand broad overarching concepts of solidarity and togetherness. Maybe I'm just a huge sperg, but what I want is concrete work on making tech work better. Make a flyer explaining stock compensation and how shady employers will structure things to screw you over, and publicize the shit out of it so that employers can't claim ignorance. Name-and-shame employers for having equity compensation terms so bad that they grants are effectively worthless. Something.

pjc50 9y ago

> I'm willing to stick my neck out for better working conditions, retirement plans, professionalism standards, and fairness in equity compensation. That is a progressive cause, no?

krakensden 9y ago
No, we're too rich.
lmm 9y ago
Traditionally yes, but it's not one that modern progressives seem to have much interest in.
fortythirteen 9y ago
Progressives like to think they're the only ones who care about that when, in reality, everyone except the strictest libertarian wants all of those things. What frustrates me personally is the inability of many progressives to rationalize anything other than Marxist/socialist means for those ends and then act as if everyone who doesn't believe in those means doesn't share those end goals.
- pjc50 9y ago
  > rationalize anything other than Marxist/socialist means What does this actually mean?
  - fortythirteen 9y ago
    Using tech industry working conditions as an example, progressives, on average, see the solution in unionizing (more bureaucracy, and the key breeding grounds for Bolshevik-like movements). They tend to dismiss the more incentive-based approach of ending the abuse of the H1-B system, which is the key market driver for artificially low wages and poorer working conditions. This is because doing so is at odds with the post-modernist ideal of a borderless society.
    - chimeracoder 9y ago
      > This is because doing so is at odds with the post-modernist ideal of a borderless society. nit: "a borderless society" is compatible with postmodernist framing, but it is not the necessary outcome of one. Postmodernism is a category of schools of though, not a single one, and so some schools of postmodernism advocate a borderless society, but others are opposed to it.

crdoconnor 9y ago

It's not politics if there isn't horse trading. Single issue pressure groups that do not form alliances with other groups do not achieve anything meaningful.

ThrustVectoring 9y ago
It's not horse trading if the very first thing you try to do is try to help out other groups. That's not forming alliances, that's selling your organization into chattel slavery. Find the points where some dedicated work can help out tech workers as a class and push on them. Then once you have something worth trading for, sell it dearly and hold out for something worthwhile. IMO something like a volunteer writer to put out educational material relevant to working conditions in tech is probably the best bang-for-buck. Teach people how and why to job-hop and negotiate, make it concise, informative, and helpful, and put up a standard link to organization and request to sign up for the mailing list. Bog-standard growth-hacking, except peddling a professional organization rather than some startup's SaaS product.