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Microdosing is the homeopathy of psychedelics. Despite being a meme for years now there has been approximately one blind study, and that one done by an amateur,

Microdosing is the homeopathy of psychedelics. Despite being a meme for years now there has been approximately one blind study, and that one done by an amateur, gwern: https://www.gwern.net/LSD-microdosing https://www.gwern.net/LSD-microdosing tl;dr it's bogus. Lots of anecdotal reports of its efficacy though, but again, why don't these amateur recreational users blind their doses? They're prone to placebo otherwise.

matznerd 9y ago
Just because there aren't studies on something does not mean it is not true. Science lags, and citizen scientists are left to explore and confer with each other to find what works and what does not. It is ignorant to ignore and belittle the progress in many fields that occurs before it is formally verified.
- buckminster 9y ago
  A classic research paper illustrating your point: http://www.bmj.com/content/327/7429/1459 http://www.bmj.com/content/327/7429/1459
  - matznerd 9y ago
    Love this study, thanks for reminding me that there are no randomised controlled trials of people using parachutes when they jump out of planes. I guess everyone should stop using parachutes then...
- tree_of_item 9y ago
  It's not just the lack of studies, although that doesn't help. Why don't amateur "psychonauts" just do these blind tests themselves? Clearly they have enough product to do it, but they won't. Gwern is pretty much the only one who bothered, and his results were negative. I'm not ignoring and belittling the progress because of the lack of formal verification. I'm belittling it because even amateurs refuse to take the first step towards confirmation of effects.
tsomctl 9y ago
It is very much not the homeopathy of psychedelics. Homeopathic medicine is where you dramatically dilute the medicine to the point where there's no appreciable amount of active medicine in the dose. There's some theory that the water molecules "remember" the medicine, or some such stupid bullshit. A microdose of psychedelics (for example, https://thethirdwave.co/microdosing-lsd-mushrooms/ https://thethirdwave.co/microdosing-lsd-mushrooms/) is misnamed. It's about 1/10 of a normal trip (a decidose?) Enough to feel buzzed, not enough to blast off into outer space. As a matter of fact, I took a microdose of shrooms an hour ago. I don't need to blind my dose, I can tell when I'm buzzed. I'm not arguing that it's noticeably improving my intelligence, performance, stamina, or anything, but it is most definitely making my afternoon more enjoyable.
- tree_of_item 9y ago
  > It is very much not the homeopathy of psychedelics. Homeopathic medicine is where you dramatically dilute the medicine to the point where there's no appreciable amount of active medicine in the dose. That is exactly what microdosing is. > A microdose of psychedelics [is] enough to feel buzzed No it isn't. If you've taken enough to feel buzzed then you took too much, according to proponents of microdosing. Here is a quote from a sticky on Reddit's /r/microdosing: > If you are feeling any changes that remind you even vaguely of tripping/being high, you've taken too much.
  - tsomctl 9y ago
    Then there's several distinct schools of thought on microdosing. Read the link I posted above.
    - tree_of_item 9y ago
      The image in your link uses the term "sub-perceptual dose". How is that congruent with feeling a "buzz"? A sub-perceptual dose by definition is too weak to feel a buzz. If you could feel a buzz, it would be in your perception.
    - tree_of_item 9y ago
empath75 9y ago
The idea of a placebo effect for psychedelics is kind of amusing.
- tree_of_item 9y ago
  Microdosing is about sub-perceptual doses. You are not supposed to get any psychedelic effects at all. It is very much prone to the placebo effect. I find it really amusing that anyone thinks taking 1-5ug of LSD is going to do a damned thing.
- jcranmer 9y ago
  The placebo effect exists for surgery.
- jeffshek 9y ago
  The "placebo" used in some psychedelic experiments include niacin (creates this flush feeling) and methylphenidate.
nugga 9y ago
Even 0.1 g of psilocybin mushrooms is enough for me to notice changes in consciousness / perception / bodily sesnsations. I and plenty others consider it a micro dose but it is definitely a sub-tripping dose (you need 1 or 2 g for that usually). Granted, there is confusion over terminology here but _small amounts_ ie. sub-balls-to-the-walls-tripping-with-visuals of psychedelics can definitely be helpful and contribute to increased well being, concentration, problem solving, energy, mood, etc.
- ramblerman 9y ago
  > can definitely be helpful and contribute to increased well being, concentration, problem solving, energy, mood, etc. Why would nature not have us operate at peak efficiency with regards to problem solving, unless there was a side effect. I'm very interested in micro dosing, and nootropics, but I would have to think there is a downside.
  - nugga 9y ago
    Being (too) high 24/7 likely has downsides in the long term but as with any exercise it's possible you can improve your performance without downsides if you have adequate rest and recovery. There are things that are not on by default within us humans. These came to mind quickly: For example modulating your breath (deep slow breathing) can give your consciousness a boost or help induce relaxtion. Meditation exercises or when you calm down to slow breathing and pay attention to sensations and thoughts has been shown to modify brain matter [0], and according to eastern scriptures and personal experience, increases awareness. Touching the roof of your mouth with your tongue (taoist technique to connect the two main channels) has been shown to boost performance. [1] Ymmv but long term daily use may contribute to increased sensitivity to emotions and have you be 'way out there, mayne' a bit too much. Not very scientific, I know. [0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004979/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004979/ [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3940506/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3940506/
  - saiya-jin 9y ago
    This is due to 'least-necessary-energy-required' principle that all living organisms employ in one way or another. Hard lessons from long evolution I presume. It's not that rare in wild nature to die from starvation, so why burn through your reserves unless its life-or-death scenario. Peak performance is taxing, just look at how our bodies react to stress/threat which mobilizes whole body.

matznerd 9y ago

Just because there aren't studies on something does not mean it is not true. Science lags, and citizen scientists are left to explore and confer with each other to find what works and what does not. It is ignorant to ignore and belittle the progress in many fields that occurs before it is formally verified.

buckminster 9y ago
A classic research paper illustrating your point: http://www.bmj.com/content/327/7429/1459 http://www.bmj.com/content/327/7429/1459
- matznerd 9y ago
  Love this study, thanks for reminding me that there are no randomised controlled trials of people using parachutes when they jump out of planes. I guess everyone should stop using parachutes then...
tree_of_item 9y ago
It's not just the lack of studies, although that doesn't help. Why don't amateur "psychonauts" just do these blind tests themselves? Clearly they have enough product to do it, but they won't. Gwern is pretty much the only one who bothered, and his results were negative. I'm not ignoring and belittling the progress because of the lack of formal verification. I'm belittling it because even amateurs refuse to take the first step towards confirmation of effects.

tsomctl 9y ago

It is very much not the homeopathy of psychedelics. Homeopathic medicine is where you dramatically dilute the medicine to the point where there's no appreciable amount of active medicine in the dose. There's some theory that the water molecules "remember" the medicine, or some such stupid bullshit. A microdose of psychedelics (for example, https://thethirdwave.co/microdosing-lsd-mushrooms/ https://thethirdwave.co/microdosing-lsd-mushrooms/) is misnamed. It's about 1/10 of a normal trip (a decidose?) Enough to feel buzzed, not enough to blast off into outer space. As a matter of fact, I took a microdose of shrooms an hour ago. I don't need to blind my dose, I can tell when I'm buzzed. I'm not arguing that it's noticeably improving my intelligence, performance, stamina, or anything, but it is most definitely making my afternoon more enjoyable.

tree_of_item 9y ago
> It is very much not the homeopathy of psychedelics. Homeopathic medicine is where you dramatically dilute the medicine to the point where there's no appreciable amount of active medicine in the dose. That is exactly what microdosing is. > A microdose of psychedelics [is] enough to feel buzzed No it isn't. If you've taken enough to feel buzzed then you took too much, according to proponents of microdosing. Here is a quote from a sticky on Reddit's /r/microdosing: > If you are feeling any changes that remind you even vaguely of tripping/being high, you've taken too much.
- tsomctl 9y ago
  Then there's several distinct schools of thought on microdosing. Read the link I posted above.
  - tree_of_item 9y ago
    The image in your link uses the term "sub-perceptual dose". How is that congruent with feeling a "buzz"? A sub-perceptual dose by definition is too weak to feel a buzz. If you could feel a buzz, it would be in your perception.
  - tree_of_item 9y ago

empath75 9y ago

The idea of a placebo effect for psychedelics is kind of amusing.

tree_of_item 9y ago
Microdosing is about sub-perceptual doses. You are not supposed to get any psychedelic effects at all. It is very much prone to the placebo effect. I find it really amusing that anyone thinks taking 1-5ug of LSD is going to do a damned thing.
jcranmer 9y ago
The placebo effect exists for surgery.
jeffshek 9y ago
The "placebo" used in some psychedelic experiments include niacin (creates this flush feeling) and methylphenidate.

nugga 9y ago

Even 0.1 g of psilocybin mushrooms is enough for me to notice changes in consciousness / perception / bodily sesnsations. I and plenty others consider it a micro dose but it is definitely a sub-tripping dose (you need 1 or 2 g for that usually). Granted, there is confusion over terminology here but _small amounts_ ie. sub-balls-to-the-walls-tripping-with-visuals of psychedelics can definitely be helpful and contribute to increased well being, concentration, problem solving, energy, mood, etc.

ramblerman 9y ago
> can definitely be helpful and contribute to increased well being, concentration, problem solving, energy, mood, etc. Why would nature not have us operate at peak efficiency with regards to problem solving, unless there was a side effect. I'm very interested in micro dosing, and nootropics, but I would have to think there is a downside.
- nugga 9y ago
  Being (too) high 24/7 likely has downsides in the long term but as with any exercise it's possible you can improve your performance without downsides if you have adequate rest and recovery. There are things that are not on by default within us humans. These came to mind quickly: For example modulating your breath (deep slow breathing) can give your consciousness a boost or help induce relaxtion. Meditation exercises or when you calm down to slow breathing and pay attention to sensations and thoughts has been shown to modify brain matter [0], and according to eastern scriptures and personal experience, increases awareness. Touching the roof of your mouth with your tongue (taoist technique to connect the two main channels) has been shown to boost performance. [1] Ymmv but long term daily use may contribute to increased sensitivity to emotions and have you be 'way out there, mayne' a bit too much. Not very scientific, I know. [0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004979/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3004979/ [1]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3940506/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3940506/
- saiya-jin 9y ago
  This is due to 'least-necessary-energy-required' principle that all living organisms employ in one way or another. Hard lessons from long evolution I presume. It's not that rare in wild nature to die from starvation, so why burn through your reserves unless its life-or-death scenario. Peak performance is taxing, just look at how our bodies react to stress/threat which mobilizes whole body.