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You can currently buy psychoactive mushrooms in stores in The Netherlands. Buying mushrooms illegally from a legit dealer in the US means making sure they have

You can currently buy psychoactive mushrooms in stores in The Netherlands. Buying mushrooms illegally from a legit dealer in the US means making sure they have several uniform bags of the product. You want to make sure they're grown safely in a lab or farm. There are too many people who will go out and just pick mushrooms, which is incredibly unsafe. Unless you're an actual mycologist, it's difficult to tell what's safe and what's toxic. There are even cases of mushrooms in the US that are toxic look exactly like an edible food variety in Asia; even down to identifying characteristics like spore prints. Entire families have gotten sick or even died as a result. So from just a safety perspective this would be a good move. Humans used psychoactive substances for centuries, usually under the supervision of a shaman or some type of religious figure to undergo a journey. It's not so different than psychologist today looking to use mushrooms to treat serious mental conditions. We have the advantage today of knowing we're not really going on some kind of cosmic journey, but merely acknowledging how dependent we are on our minds giving us our rational view of the world; and seeing how that can be easily and radically changed.

ataturk 9y ago
Is anything real or satisfying ever gleaned from all those so-called journeys or is it just a bunch of utter horse shit? Based on all the druggies I have ever been around, it seems like utter horse shit to me. Plus, they all become good-for-nothing slobs who couldn't hold down a job or a relationship and really I couldn't care if they were taken out back and shot.
jlebar 9y ago
> Humans used psychoactive substances for centuries, usually under the supervision of a shaman or some type of religious figure to undergo a journey. I don't have a position on legalizing psychoactive mushrooms, but I don't think this is a good argument. For example, humans also used lead to sweeten wine for centuries, but that's not evidence that lead is harmless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead(II)_acetate#Sweetener https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead(II)_acetate#Sweetener I'm sure we could come up with many more such examples.
- JumpCrisscross 9y ago
  Nobody is running about trying to purchase, at least for their own account, lead sweeteners on the black market. We know the risks, and we don't want it. With psychoactive substances, however, many people who know the risks still want it. It strikes me as absurd that inhibiting them should be a public matter.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - trowaybloway 9y ago
    you wouldn't allow drugs in traffic and you wouldn't want them in public. Alcohol use shows that not always is drug use constrained to private settings, so there is the argument against it, because what starts in private might under the influence end up in an inappropriate place.
    - freedomben 9y ago
      Following that logic we must also ban sex, because some people don't constrain it to private settings and sometimes take it into public places that are inappropriate.
      - trowaybloway 9y ago
        One thing after another, in order of death toll.
    - manigandham 9y ago
      Alcohol is allowed so what exactly are you saying? When it was banned under prohibition in the US, it didnt change much either. There will always be irresponsible people, however we shouldn't intrude on the freedoms of everyone for the faults of a few.
      - trowaybloway 9y ago
bamboozled 9y ago
You can currently buy psychoactive mushrooms in stores in The Netherlands. Unless something has changed within the last year, this is no longer the case (in Amsterdam at least). They do sell something called "Magic Truffles" but AFAIK they're no where near as potent. It was possible to buy mushrooms there until a few years back but apparently it was putting stress on paramedics and police due to "drug tourists" having freak outs from performing a "trifecta", cannabis, ecstasy and shrooms in one weekend and having a little episode.
- chess_buster 9y ago
  Magic Truffles is just a different name to circumvent the law. It's stupid, that this way the law can be circumvented, but it seems to be possible nevertheless.
  - darpa_escapee 9y ago
    It's not just a different name, it's a different species.
    - tree_of_item 9y ago
      Is it actually a different species? I was under the impression a "truffle" was just a different part of the larger organism that also contains mushrooms. > Apart from the visual appearance there is no difference between magic mushrooms and magic truffles. The so-called truffles are objectively no real truffle (as those belong to the genus Tuber), but sclerotia of psilocybe mushrooms growing below the ground. Therefore, they are nothing more than an underground part of the fungus and completely identical to the part above the ground, the so-called fruiting body, which we call the actual mushroom. Both contain the hallucinogenic molecules psilocybin, psilocin and baeocystin, both are absolutely effective.
      - chidg 9y ago
        Mycologist here. Yes, they are different species. Your quote is partly correct in that 'magic truffles' (also known as philosopher's stones) are not real truffles. They are in fact sclerotia, a hardened 'resting stage' of the organism that protects against drought, and they are not a sexually reproductive part of the organism, unlike a true truffle or a mushroom. However it is incorrect in saying that apart from the visual appearance there is no difference, because there is a clear difference in biological function, and they are generally different species, at least as found in the commercial trade. The species commonly sold and used as magic mushrooms (primarily Psilocybe cubensis) do not produce sclerotia. Conversely, the species that commonly produce sclerotia (Psilocybe mexicana amongst others - there's a lot of taxonomic uncertainty, partly because the mushrooms themselves are required for identification), although they can and do produce mushrooms, are never reported to be found being sold as mushrooms in commerce - only as sclerotia. Further, there are consistently reported subjective differences in the experiences engendered by Psilocybe cubensis magic mushrooms and P. mexicana et al. sclerotia. Whether or not this is due to small differences in the profile of the various alkaloids, an as yet unidentified other psychoactive component, or simply psychological priming due to users being told they are different, we do not know.
sandworm101 9y ago
>> Entire families have gotten sick or even died as a result. Happens in vancouver every few years. Always the same. Grandma arrives from china. She picks what she thinks are the same mushrooms she saw in china, puts them in the soup, and the entire family spends a night in hospital. Google "vancouver BC death cap mushroom". "They’re (Death Cap) also mistaken for the Asian semi-tropical Paddy Straw Mushroom. That’s of particular risk to recent arrivals from Asia who may not be a aware that there’s a deadly look-alike to the Straw Mushroom." http://www.news1130.com/2017/07/22/warning-death-cap-mushrooms-victoria-vancouver/ http://www.news1130.com/2017/07/22/warning-death-cap-mushroo...
jseliger 9y ago
Humans used psychoactive substances for centuries, usually under the supervision of a shaman or some type of religious figure to undergo a journey Likely even longer; if you're curious about some of the anthropology and botany behind mind-altering substances, Wade Davis's One River is excellent: https://www.amazon.com/One-River-Wade-Davis/dp/0684834960?ie=UTF8&tag=thstsst-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957 https://www.amazon.com/One-River-Wade-Davis/dp/0684834960?ie.... It focuses on the first half of the 20th C in particular. As far as I know, it's impossible to know for sure when humans began using mind-altering substances like psychoactive mushroom, peyote, or ayahuasca, but it's likely been a very long time. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/09/12/the-ayahuasca-boom-in-the-u-s https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/09/12/the-ayahuasca-...
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
petre 9y ago
> There are too many people who will go out and just pick mushrooms, which is incredibly unsafe That's why decriminalization is beneficial: mycoligists can earn a living and others can get high safely. Governments banned psychoactive drugs because people got ideas like draft dodging, protesting against the Vietnam war and writing some of the best literature of that time.
tinbad 9y ago
> You can currently buy psychoactive mushrooms in stores in The Netherlands. No you can't (anymore). They are illegal since 2008. I remember when they became illegal since me and my friends used to experiment with them, but a few unfortunate accidents/deaths involving tourists combining them with other (illegal) drugs lead to their prohibition. * * https://www.drugsenuitgaan.nl/hulp-en-advies/veel-gestelde-vragen/uitgebreid/?vraag=35 https://www.drugsenuitgaan.nl/hulp-en-advies/veel-gestelde-v...
- throwaways37291 9y ago
  You can buy them in some shops regardless of legality (I get the sense that they only enforce when there has been a recent incident), but you’re right that full mushrooms themselves aren’t legal. They do sell “truffles” which are less-psychoactive but the same thing, legally.
- boyce 9y ago
  I remember when they were banned in the UK - wanted to try them that weekend (had tickets for Black Sabbath) but they couldn't be had at any money the last few days Seems weird that some drugs and some countries are moving away from legalisation but it's got to be evidence based imo
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
benevol 9y ago
> You can currently buy psychoactive mushrooms in stores in The Netherlands. And maybe a less corrupt system (which allows for knowledge such as the following to persist) is the reason: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/oct/13/magic-mushrooms-reboot-brain-in-depressed-people-study https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/oct/13/magic-mushro...
Alex3917 9y ago
> There are too many people who will go out and just pick mushrooms, which is incredibly unsafe. The ones grown outside can naturally protect themselves from potentially toxic bacterial infections, while the ones grown in jars can't. So in areas of the country (e.g. the mid-Atlantic region) with easy-to-identify psilocybin species, it's actually much safer to find them outside than to grow them. Yes it takes more work, but knowing how to identify the local plants/mushrooms/trees is also a basic part of being an adult. To quote Gary Snyder's life advice, "Stay together, learn the flowers, go light."

ataturk 9y ago

Is anything real or satisfying ever gleaned from all those so-called journeys or is it just a bunch of utter horse shit? Based on all the druggies I have ever been around, it seems like utter horse shit to me. Plus, they all become good-for-nothing slobs who couldn't hold down a job or a relationship and really I couldn't care if they were taken out back and shot.

jlebar 9y ago

> Humans used psychoactive substances for centuries, usually under the supervision of a shaman or some type of religious figure to undergo a journey. I don't have a position on legalizing psychoactive mushrooms, but I don't think this is a good argument. For example, humans also used lead to sweeten wine for centuries, but that's not evidence that lead is harmless. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead(II)_acetate#Sweetener https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead(II)_acetate#Sweetener I'm sure we could come up with many more such examples.

JumpCrisscross 9y ago
Nobody is running about trying to purchase, at least for their own account, lead sweeteners on the black market. We know the risks, and we don't want it. With psychoactive substances, however, many people who know the risks still want it. It strikes me as absurd that inhibiting them should be a public matter.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- trowaybloway 9y ago
  you wouldn't allow drugs in traffic and you wouldn't want them in public. Alcohol use shows that not always is drug use constrained to private settings, so there is the argument against it, because what starts in private might under the influence end up in an inappropriate place.
  - freedomben 9y ago
    Following that logic we must also ban sex, because some people don't constrain it to private settings and sometimes take it into public places that are inappropriate.
    - trowaybloway 9y ago
      One thing after another, in order of death toll.
  - manigandham 9y ago
    Alcohol is allowed so what exactly are you saying? When it was banned under prohibition in the US, it didnt change much either. There will always be irresponsible people, however we shouldn't intrude on the freedoms of everyone for the faults of a few.
    - trowaybloway 9y ago

bamboozled 9y ago

You can currently buy psychoactive mushrooms in stores in The Netherlands. Unless something has changed within the last year, this is no longer the case (in Amsterdam at least). They do sell something called "Magic Truffles" but AFAIK they're no where near as potent. It was possible to buy mushrooms there until a few years back but apparently it was putting stress on paramedics and police due to "drug tourists" having freak outs from performing a "trifecta", cannabis, ecstasy and shrooms in one weekend and having a little episode.

chess_buster 9y ago
Magic Truffles is just a different name to circumvent the law. It's stupid, that this way the law can be circumvented, but it seems to be possible nevertheless.
- darpa_escapee 9y ago
  It's not just a different name, it's a different species.
  - tree_of_item 9y ago
    Is it actually a different species? I was under the impression a "truffle" was just a different part of the larger organism that also contains mushrooms. > Apart from the visual appearance there is no difference between magic mushrooms and magic truffles. The so-called truffles are objectively no real truffle (as those belong to the genus Tuber), but sclerotia of psilocybe mushrooms growing below the ground. Therefore, they are nothing more than an underground part of the fungus and completely identical to the part above the ground, the so-called fruiting body, which we call the actual mushroom. Both contain the hallucinogenic molecules psilocybin, psilocin and baeocystin, both are absolutely effective.
    - chidg 9y ago
      Mycologist here. Yes, they are different species. Your quote is partly correct in that 'magic truffles' (also known as philosopher's stones) are not real truffles. They are in fact sclerotia, a hardened 'resting stage' of the organism that protects against drought, and they are not a sexually reproductive part of the organism, unlike a true truffle or a mushroom. However it is incorrect in saying that apart from the visual appearance there is no difference, because there is a clear difference in biological function, and they are generally different species, at least as found in the commercial trade. The species commonly sold and used as magic mushrooms (primarily Psilocybe cubensis) do not produce sclerotia. Conversely, the species that commonly produce sclerotia (Psilocybe mexicana amongst others - there's a lot of taxonomic uncertainty, partly because the mushrooms themselves are required for identification), although they can and do produce mushrooms, are never reported to be found being sold as mushrooms in commerce - only as sclerotia. Further, there are consistently reported subjective differences in the experiences engendered by Psilocybe cubensis magic mushrooms and P. mexicana et al. sclerotia. Whether or not this is due to small differences in the profile of the various alkaloids, an as yet unidentified other psychoactive component, or simply psychological priming due to users being told they are different, we do not know.

sandworm101 9y ago

>> Entire families have gotten sick or even died as a result. Happens in vancouver every few years. Always the same. Grandma arrives from china. She picks what she thinks are the same mushrooms she saw in china, puts them in the soup, and the entire family spends a night in hospital. Google "vancouver BC death cap mushroom". "They’re (Death Cap) also mistaken for the Asian semi-tropical Paddy Straw Mushroom. That’s of particular risk to recent arrivals from Asia who may not be a aware that there’s a deadly look-alike to the Straw Mushroom." http://www.news1130.com/2017/07/22/warning-death-cap-mushrooms-victoria-vancouver/ http://www.news1130.com/2017/07/22/warning-death-cap-mushroo...

jseliger 9y ago

Humans used psychoactive substances for centuries, usually under the supervision of a shaman or some type of religious figure to undergo a journey Likely even longer; if you're curious about some of the anthropology and botany behind mind-altering substances, Wade Davis's One River is excellent: https://www.amazon.com/One-River-Wade-Davis/dp/0684834960?ie=UTF8&tag=thstsst-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957 https://www.amazon.com/One-River-Wade-Davis/dp/0684834960?ie.... It focuses on the first half of the 20th C in particular. As far as I know, it's impossible to know for sure when humans began using mind-altering substances like psychoactive mushroom, peyote, or ayahuasca, but it's likely been a very long time. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/09/12/the-ayahuasca-boom-in-the-u-s https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/09/12/the-ayahuasca-...

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

petre 9y ago

> There are too many people who will go out and just pick mushrooms, which is incredibly unsafe That's why decriminalization is beneficial: mycoligists can earn a living and others can get high safely. Governments banned psychoactive drugs because people got ideas like draft dodging, protesting against the Vietnam war and writing some of the best literature of that time.

tinbad 9y ago

> You can currently buy psychoactive mushrooms in stores in The Netherlands. No you can't (anymore). They are illegal since 2008. I remember when they became illegal since me and my friends used to experiment with them, but a few unfortunate accidents/deaths involving tourists combining them with other (illegal) drugs lead to their prohibition. * * https://www.drugsenuitgaan.nl/hulp-en-advies/veel-gestelde-vragen/uitgebreid/?vraag=35 https://www.drugsenuitgaan.nl/hulp-en-advies/veel-gestelde-v...

throwaways37291 9y ago
You can buy them in some shops regardless of legality (I get the sense that they only enforce when there has been a recent incident), but you’re right that full mushrooms themselves aren’t legal. They do sell “truffles” which are less-psychoactive but the same thing, legally.
boyce 9y ago
I remember when they were banned in the UK - wanted to try them that weekend (had tickets for Black Sabbath) but they couldn't be had at any money the last few days Seems weird that some drugs and some countries are moving away from legalisation but it's got to be evidence based imo

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

benevol 9y ago

> You can currently buy psychoactive mushrooms in stores in The Netherlands. And maybe a less corrupt system (which allows for knowledge such as the following to persist) is the reason: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/oct/13/magic-mushrooms-reboot-brain-in-depressed-people-study https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/oct/13/magic-mushro...

Alex3917 9y ago

> There are too many people who will go out and just pick mushrooms, which is incredibly unsafe. The ones grown outside can naturally protect themselves from potentially toxic bacterial infections, while the ones grown in jars can't. So in areas of the country (e.g. the mid-Atlantic region) with easy-to-identify psilocybin species, it's actually much safer to find them outside than to grow them. Yes it takes more work, but knowing how to identify the local plants/mushrooms/trees is also a basic part of being an adult. To quote Gary Snyder's life advice, "Stay together, learn the flowers, go light."