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I feel a bit frustrated with the startup application process. The (very common) question, "List any links that will let us know who you are. For example, projec

I feel a bit frustrated with the startup application process. The (very common) question, "List any links that will let us know who you are. For example, projects you've worked on or links to your GitHub, StackOverflow, Twitter, blog, website, etc." always seems to hold a lot of weight while being tangent to the work I would expect to be doing. I don't have a GitHub, I'm not a StackOverflow member, I'm not on Twitter, I don't have a blog, and I haven't had a website since graduating with my CS degree. That does not mean that I am not talented, smart, or motivated. In my case, I like to interact personally with friends as opposed to digitally. I like to work on personal projects to satisfy my curiosity without being worried about later publishing them. And I'm not interesting/vain enough to warrant a blog, website, or Twitter presence. I like to work hard, "learn" hard (I do enjoy Hacker News), and play hard, and keeping up on the latest shiny-new-technology-web-presence-clique seems tangential to that. My goal is to work for a few years in an interesting software development position on a smart team, getting paid a fair wage while providing the company with equal value in return. In those years, I would expect to learn (and contribute!) a lot while also paying off my debts and helping out my parents. After that, I would reëvaluate my goals and my career. What frustrates me is that I feel like I have to jump through hoops just to get into the mix. I feel like I won't even be seriously considered unless I develop a few simple web tools built on RoR, promote them on a DJango website with a blog, host the source to the whole thing on GitHub, jump into the Twitter craze, and try to make useful contributions to FOSS and StackOverflow communities that are already saturated with great solutions. That seems like a lot of unimportant crap when all I really want to do is good work. If it takes me an extra day to learn RoR because your company uses it, that seems very small in the entire scheme of things. I understand that I don't have a web-visible track record to point you to. I'm quite willing to work at an under-market rate for a few months until I'm up to speed and it is determined that I am a good fit. Is there anywhere interesting to work that is looking to hire somebody like me?

nicholasjbs 16y ago
Hey Brandon, I hear what you're saying. Not having an impressive GitHub/StackOverflow/etc account in no way means you aren't an awesome developer. You sound like a smart guy who knows what he's looking for. I'd suggest applying. I know none of the YC companies care about whether you have a certain number of followers on Twitter or GitHub. They want people who are smart and get stuff done.
- BrandonM 16y ago
  Thanks. I'll consider submitting in spite of not having a good answer for that section.
Cabal 16y ago
Have you looked towards the East Coast in your searches at all? You sound like most of the engineers we hire.
- BrandonM 16y ago
  I'd be happy to move almost anywhere (but especially coastal places because I love the ocean). In a way, that makes it almost harder to figure out where to begin the application process. Any pointers?
acgourley 16y ago
I feel like younger start-ups in particular have the attitude: "If you don't have a trail of your own work, you're not extremely self directed, and we don't have the structure to manage you". And I think that's valid. If you still want to apply to these types of companies you should organize and show off the projects you've done on your own on a day to day basis. That said, there are startups that have a more mature process. A necessary but insufficient condition is that they have hired a product manager or two. I know we'd get your application if you use this tool, but you should check out Loopt because it is a more mature startup. You can contact me directly if you have questions (check profile for contact). http://about.loopt.com/jobs/ http://about.loopt.com/jobs/
zaidf 16y ago
You are mixing up too many things. You don't have to be a celeb on twitter/SO/GitHub to get into YC. In fact, I think majority of folks that get into YC aren't the most active or even active on those platforms you list. HN is full of YC founders who have very few posts. While some prominent HN members have gotten into YC, I think that is more of an exception than the rule. That does not mean that I am not talented, smart, or motivated. What do you suggest they do? There are thousands of people aching to get into these programs. Vast majority of them believe they are smart, talented and motivated. At the end of the day though there are only so many spots. So naturally, you need a filter of some kind--even if it is not perfect. You know you are talented but I urge you to put yourself in the shoes of folks at the other end. How are they supposed to know you are talented, smart or motivated?
- BrandonM 16y ago
  The point is not to get into YC, but to work for a YC-funded company, or more generally, in any exciting development environment. Being a good employee requires certain skills, skills which don't always heavily overlap with the skills required to be a founder. A founder has to have drive and vision, the ability to motivate others, and the wherewithal to see things through to completion, among other things. A good employee's main traits include working efficiently and communicating effectively (in my experience, in any job). Some people are capable of producing great work when given a little direction and prodding. Those same people may iterate endlessly and have trouble finishing things when working independently. Thus, there is an entire class of good workers who will almost by definition not have the types of independent projects that many hiring startups are so keen to see.
  - zaidf 16y ago
    My bad. I totally misread this whole thread. I thought this was a common application for all YC-like programs. Totally botched it there. Sorry!
qhoxie 16y ago
I think a lot of this comes down to the company's ability to vet a candidate. I find it fortunate that I can easily find and read code that someone I am interviewing actually wrote. In most cases you can also find when he/she wrote it and in what context. This is what I am looking for, and I don't need to get it from github or the like. Job postings are more often than not (imo) poorly worded. The main idea is that you extract what they are actually looking for, which you can in most cases. If they ask for your github account and you do not have one - tell them you don't and send them some significant code samples. If they ask for a twitter/SO account and you don't have one - say you focus most of your commentary on HN and give them your username here. I don't know of any companies that will ignore/discount you if you provide them with the data they are seeking.
sliverstorm 16y ago
Sadly, there will almost always be hoops, and you will almost always have to jump through them. I know this might seem too fatalistic of an outlook, but I personally find that it's mostly true, and accepting it allows you to better deal with hoops in their various shapes and sizes. You can break the mold every now and again, and avoid the hoops, but often it's more effective to just practice your hula (hoop)
coffeemug 16y ago
We're one of the companies that will hire people through the YCommonApp, and we don't care if you're on twitter, github, stackoverflow, have a blog or a website, and whether you've played with RoR, Django, Clojure, or some other flavor of the week technology. Being damn good at what you do is more than enough for us.
- BrandonM 16y ago
  OK, thanks for the data point. Thanks in large part to the comments of you and others, I went ahead submitted my application. Unfortunately, the only way you could know that I'm damn good at whatever work I'm doing (whether that be serving, bartending, tutoring, valet parking, programming, or working in a steel mill) is to accept my word and give me some work to do. :)
- alttab 16y ago
  Companies that require those things do so because they aren't themselves able to spot talent. Would you want to work for those people?
mike-cardwell 16y ago
What they're asking for is basically a portfolio. You don't need a portfolio to get a good job, but it helps. Perhaps you should spend some time putting one together.
mynameishere 16y ago
My goal is to work for a few years in an interesting software development position on a smart team, getting paid a fair wage while providing the company with equal value in return. Yeah, that's not how it works, ever. If you copypasted this from under "Objective" in your resume, which is what it sounds like, you might want to remove the words "equal value".
- BrandonM 16y ago
  Good point, but I didn't mean it quite that literally. I only meant that I don't expect to get paid without producing. Fortunately, that is not the "Objective" on my resume, but thanks anyways for the pointer.

nicholasjbs 16y ago

Hey Brandon, I hear what you're saying. Not having an impressive GitHub/StackOverflow/etc account in no way means you aren't an awesome developer. You sound like a smart guy who knows what he's looking for. I'd suggest applying. I know none of the YC companies care about whether you have a certain number of followers on Twitter or GitHub. They want people who are smart and get stuff done.

BrandonM 16y ago
Thanks. I'll consider submitting in spite of not having a good answer for that section.

Cabal 16y ago

Have you looked towards the East Coast in your searches at all? You sound like most of the engineers we hire.

BrandonM 16y ago
I'd be happy to move almost anywhere (but especially coastal places because I love the ocean). In a way, that makes it almost harder to figure out where to begin the application process. Any pointers?

acgourley 16y ago

I feel like younger start-ups in particular have the attitude: "If you don't have a trail of your own work, you're not extremely self directed, and we don't have the structure to manage you". And I think that's valid. If you still want to apply to these types of companies you should organize and show off the projects you've done on your own on a day to day basis. That said, there are startups that have a more mature process. A necessary but insufficient condition is that they have hired a product manager or two. I know we'd get your application if you use this tool, but you should check out Loopt because it is a more mature startup. You can contact me directly if you have questions (check profile for contact). http://about.loopt.com/jobs/ http://about.loopt.com/jobs/

zaidf 16y ago

You are mixing up too many things. You don't have to be a celeb on twitter/SO/GitHub to get into YC. In fact, I think majority of folks that get into YC aren't the most active or even active on those platforms you list. HN is full of YC founders who have very few posts. While some prominent HN members have gotten into YC, I think that is more of an exception than the rule. That does not mean that I am not talented, smart, or motivated. What do you suggest they do? There are thousands of people aching to get into these programs. Vast majority of them believe they are smart, talented and motivated. At the end of the day though there are only so many spots. So naturally, you need a filter of some kind--even if it is not perfect. You know you are talented but I urge you to put yourself in the shoes of folks at the other end. How are they supposed to know you are talented, smart or motivated?

BrandonM 16y ago
The point is not to get into YC, but to work for a YC-funded company, or more generally, in any exciting development environment. Being a good employee requires certain skills, skills which don't always heavily overlap with the skills required to be a founder. A founder has to have drive and vision, the ability to motivate others, and the wherewithal to see things through to completion, among other things. A good employee's main traits include working efficiently and communicating effectively (in my experience, in any job). Some people are capable of producing great work when given a little direction and prodding. Those same people may iterate endlessly and have trouble finishing things when working independently. Thus, there is an entire class of good workers who will almost by definition not have the types of independent projects that many hiring startups are so keen to see.
- zaidf 16y ago
  My bad. I totally misread this whole thread. I thought this was a common application for all YC-like programs. Totally botched it there. Sorry!

qhoxie 16y ago

I think a lot of this comes down to the company's ability to vet a candidate. I find it fortunate that I can easily find and read code that someone I am interviewing actually wrote. In most cases you can also find when he/she wrote it and in what context. This is what I am looking for, and I don't need to get it from github or the like. Job postings are more often than not (imo) poorly worded. The main idea is that you extract what they are actually looking for, which you can in most cases. If they ask for your github account and you do not have one - tell them you don't and send them some significant code samples. If they ask for a twitter/SO account and you don't have one - say you focus most of your commentary on HN and give them your username here. I don't know of any companies that will ignore/discount you if you provide them with the data they are seeking.

sliverstorm 16y ago

Sadly, there will almost always be hoops, and you will almost always have to jump through them. I know this might seem too fatalistic of an outlook, but I personally find that it's mostly true, and accepting it allows you to better deal with hoops in their various shapes and sizes. You can break the mold every now and again, and avoid the hoops, but often it's more effective to just practice your hula (hoop)

coffeemug 16y ago

We're one of the companies that will hire people through the YCommonApp, and we don't care if you're on twitter, github, stackoverflow, have a blog or a website, and whether you've played with RoR, Django, Clojure, or some other flavor of the week technology. Being damn good at what you do is more than enough for us.

BrandonM 16y ago
OK, thanks for the data point. Thanks in large part to the comments of you and others, I went ahead submitted my application. Unfortunately, the only way you could know that I'm damn good at whatever work I'm doing (whether that be serving, bartending, tutoring, valet parking, programming, or working in a steel mill) is to accept my word and give me some work to do. :)
alttab 16y ago
Companies that require those things do so because they aren't themselves able to spot talent. Would you want to work for those people?

mike-cardwell 16y ago

What they're asking for is basically a portfolio. You don't need a portfolio to get a good job, but it helps. Perhaps you should spend some time putting one together.

mynameishere 16y ago

My goal is to work for a few years in an interesting software development position on a smart team, getting paid a fair wage while providing the company with equal value in return. Yeah, that's not how it works, ever. If you copypasted this from under "Objective" in your resume, which is what it sounds like, you might want to remove the words "equal value".

BrandonM 16y ago
Good point, but I didn't mean it quite that literally. I only meant that I don't expect to get paid without producing. Fortunately, that is not the "Objective" on my resume, but thanks anyways for the pointer.