7 ms·

If it as just as good as chrome, why should I switch? Especially given how good Chrome Dev tools are.

by manojlds 9y ago

Yoric 9y ago
Better privacy? Non-profit? More open source? Cheerful community? Pick one or more :)
- toweringgoat 9y ago
  Privacy is about the same, Mozilla Corporation (who distribute the browser) aren't non-profit, both are open source. Correct on community maybe.
  - chimeracoder 9y ago
    > Privacy is about the same, Mozilla Corporation (who distribute the browser) aren't non-profit, both are open source. Chrome is not open-source. Chromium is, but Chrome is not.
  - AsyncAwait 9y ago
    > Mozilla Corporation (who distribute the browser) aren't non-profit Mozilla Corporation is wholly owned by the non-profit. > both are open source Not to the same degree, as Chrome != Chromium
  - callahad 9y ago
    The privacy situation is absolutely different; Mozilla has no profit motive to monitor and monetize your activity on the Web. For example, Firefox Sync is specifically designed so that we have no knowledge of your browsing data. In contrast, when you sign into Chrome, "Your experience in other Google products is personalized by including your Chrome history with your Web & App Activity."(https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/185277 https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/185277)
    - raller 9y ago
      > The privacy situation is absolutely different https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/74n0b2/mozilla_ships_cliqz_experiment_in_germany_for_1/ https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/74n0b2/mozilla_shi...
    - JadeNB 9y ago
      > Mozilla has no profit motive to monitor and monetize your activity on the Web. But if a substantial portion of Mozilla's funding comes from an organisation that does have a profit motive to monitor and monetise my activity on the web, then surely that's almost as bad (for me as the end user)?
      - Drdrdrq 9y ago
        There's a world of difference. For Mozilla to sell out on user's privacy it would mean game over. They simply can't afford to do so, even if they wanted to (which I believe they don't). Google on the other hand? That's their main business, they are an advertising agency. Sure they make nice products too but make no mistake where their profit is coming from.
      - jeffdavis 9y ago
        I donate to Mozilla because they claim to support privacy, and I want them to be less dependent on large donations.
callahad 9y ago
Aside from the privacy / philosophy / openness / counterweight-to-monopolization-of-the-Web angles which Yoric mentioned, you might find we're actually better than Chrome in some areas. Often small things, but I find I prefer the feel of Firefox to Chrome. - If you do frontend work, our CSS grid inspector is unparalleled https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/Page_Inspector/How_to/Examine_grid_layouts https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/Page_Inspecto... - Firefox has built-in tracking protection (https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2017/11/12/firefox-to-offer-tracking-protection-for-all-in-its-next-update/ https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2017/11/12/firefox-to-offer...) - Powerful add-ons like Tree Style Tab make managing large numbers of tabs much easier (https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/tree-style-tab/ https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/tree-style-tab/) - Our WebAssembly performance tends to be better - We should have better resource utilization when you have many tabs open - You can mute audio on a page clicking the little speaker icon in the tab If you want to contribute to the DevTools themselves, they're built using standard web technologies: HTML/JS, React/Redux, etc. https://github.com/devtools-html/ https://github.com/devtools-html/
- Avernar 9y ago
  > If you want to contribute to the DevTools themselves I wish I had the time. So I'll have to wait for someone else to add the element DOM properties tab in thr panel that has the style rules and layout. Firebug had it, Chrome has it. The right click and then Show DOM Properties with the results in the console pane is just painful to use.
- aquadrop 9y ago
  You've switched to multiple processes model, but you don't have "task manager" as Chrome. Do you plan to implement it in the future?
  - Santosh83 9y ago
    about:performance is a somewhat similar substitute for now. You can see stats of the various processes and close or reload tabs.
AsyncAwait 9y ago
To support a non-profit, so that they actually have the might to fight for us.
- WC3w6pXxgGd 9y ago
  Are you under the assumption that profit is bad?
pornel 9y ago
I personally like how it handles hundreds of tabs. No matter how many tabs I have open they remain usable size, and the compact UI theme is even more compact than Chrome. Tab containers are useful for having multiple accounts on the same site (Gmail/Github), or isolating work or most secure sites from regular browsing. The containers are more light-weight and more general than Chrome profiles (and they don't depend on having external accounts). Pinned tabs don't close on Command+W. It's a small thing, but I kept accidentally closing my pinned tabs in Chrome. Chrome Dev Tools are hard to beat, although Fx is slowly catching up there, too. I don't mind launching Chrome just for web dev.
- scholia 9y ago
  > No matter how many tabs I have open they remain usable size They were! I think they've shrunk, though that might be an optical illusion... And I can't see a simple way to make them bigger (simple as in: not editing the css file).
  - mythmon_ 9y ago
    There is a pref that controls the minimum width now (browser.tabs.tabMinWidth). The default changed from 100px to 76px in Firefox 57. You should be able to tweak this to change the minimum width.
    - scholia 9y ago
      Fantastic. Many many thanks.
coldtea 9y ago
Yeah, if it's just for the good of the internet, openess, and society, who cares to jump to an equal (but better at those regards) engine?
benlower 9y ago
because Google has the worst biz model in the tech industry and is doing harm to the world.
- myrryr 9y ago
  I guess you were not around during the Halloween papers then. Or the Sco Linux lawsuits.
  - benlower 9y ago
    i was not. def slimy stuff.
- binaryblitz 9y ago
  How so? That's a pretty bold claim...
- aquadrop 9y ago
  I think Chrome and its DevTools has positive overall effect on the world.
- V-2 9y ago
  Fortunately brave rebels fight against this harm in every way they can :) https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/11/14/firefox-features-google-as-default-search-provider-in-the-u-s-canada-hong-kong-and-taiwan/ https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/11/14/firefox-features-go... The real world is not Star Wars. For all the privacy considerations etc., this comment above reads extremely naive.
wtetzner 9y ago
Honestly, I find it to be (subjectively, I didn't actually measure anything) much faster than Chrome. At least, it feels much snappier on my MacBook Air.
dabockster 9y ago
A lot of us in the dev community feel that some of the web standards that Chrome is pushing does not reflect the will of the community at large. Chrome is also tied to a company known to have a business interest in data collection, while Firefox is maintained by the community with some funding from a nonprofit.
Zardoz84 9y ago
Becasue Firefox Dev tools are better ? I feel the Chrome dev tools more hard to use.

If it as just as good as chrome, why should I switch? Especially given how good Chrome Dev tools are.

Yoric 9y ago

Better privacy? Non-profit? More open source? Cheerful community? Pick one or more :)

toweringgoat 9y ago
Privacy is about the same, Mozilla Corporation (who distribute the browser) aren't non-profit, both are open source. Correct on community maybe.
- chimeracoder 9y ago
  > Privacy is about the same, Mozilla Corporation (who distribute the browser) aren't non-profit, both are open source. Chrome is not open-source. Chromium is, but Chrome is not.
- AsyncAwait 9y ago
  > Mozilla Corporation (who distribute the browser) aren't non-profit Mozilla Corporation is wholly owned by the non-profit. > both are open source Not to the same degree, as Chrome != Chromium
- callahad 9y ago
  The privacy situation is absolutely different; Mozilla has no profit motive to monitor and monetize your activity on the Web. For example, Firefox Sync is specifically designed so that we have no knowledge of your browsing data. In contrast, when you sign into Chrome, "Your experience in other Google products is personalized by including your Chrome history with your Web & App Activity."(https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/185277 https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/185277)
  - raller 9y ago
    > The privacy situation is absolutely different https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/74n0b2/mozilla_ships_cliqz_experiment_in_germany_for_1/ https://www.reddit.com/r/firefox/comments/74n0b2/mozilla_shi...
  - JadeNB 9y ago
    > Mozilla has no profit motive to monitor and monetize your activity on the Web. But if a substantial portion of Mozilla's funding comes from an organisation that does have a profit motive to monitor and monetise my activity on the web, then surely that's almost as bad (for me as the end user)?
    - Drdrdrq 9y ago
      There's a world of difference. For Mozilla to sell out on user's privacy it would mean game over. They simply can't afford to do so, even if they wanted to (which I believe they don't). Google on the other hand? That's their main business, they are an advertising agency. Sure they make nice products too but make no mistake where their profit is coming from.
    - jeffdavis 9y ago
      I donate to Mozilla because they claim to support privacy, and I want them to be less dependent on large donations.

callahad 9y ago

Aside from the privacy / philosophy / openness / counterweight-to-monopolization-of-the-Web angles which Yoric mentioned, you might find we're actually better than Chrome in some areas. Often small things, but I find I prefer the feel of Firefox to Chrome. - If you do frontend work, our CSS grid inspector is unparalleled https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/Page_Inspector/How_to/Examine_grid_layouts https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Tools/Page_Inspecto... - Firefox has built-in tracking protection (https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2017/11/12/firefox-to-offer-tracking-protection-for-all-in-its-next-update/ https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2017/11/12/firefox-to-offer...) - Powerful add-ons like Tree Style Tab make managing large numbers of tabs much easier (https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/tree-style-tab/ https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/tree-style-tab/) - Our WebAssembly performance tends to be better - We should have better resource utilization when you have many tabs open - You can mute audio on a page clicking the little speaker icon in the tab If you want to contribute to the DevTools themselves, they're built using standard web technologies: HTML/JS, React/Redux, etc. https://github.com/devtools-html/ https://github.com/devtools-html/

Avernar 9y ago
> If you want to contribute to the DevTools themselves I wish I had the time. So I'll have to wait for someone else to add the element DOM properties tab in thr panel that has the style rules and layout. Firebug had it, Chrome has it. The right click and then Show DOM Properties with the results in the console pane is just painful to use.
aquadrop 9y ago
You've switched to multiple processes model, but you don't have "task manager" as Chrome. Do you plan to implement it in the future?
- Santosh83 9y ago
  about:performance is a somewhat similar substitute for now. You can see stats of the various processes and close or reload tabs.

AsyncAwait 9y ago

To support a non-profit, so that they actually have the might to fight for us.

WC3w6pXxgGd 9y ago
Are you under the assumption that profit is bad?

pornel 9y ago

I personally like how it handles hundreds of tabs. No matter how many tabs I have open they remain usable size, and the compact UI theme is even more compact than Chrome. Tab containers are useful for having multiple accounts on the same site (Gmail/Github), or isolating work or most secure sites from regular browsing. The containers are more light-weight and more general than Chrome profiles (and they don't depend on having external accounts). Pinned tabs don't close on Command+W. It's a small thing, but I kept accidentally closing my pinned tabs in Chrome. Chrome Dev Tools are hard to beat, although Fx is slowly catching up there, too. I don't mind launching Chrome just for web dev.

scholia 9y ago
> No matter how many tabs I have open they remain usable size They were! I think they've shrunk, though that might be an optical illusion... And I can't see a simple way to make them bigger (simple as in: not editing the css file).
- mythmon_ 9y ago
  There is a pref that controls the minimum width now (browser.tabs.tabMinWidth). The default changed from 100px to 76px in Firefox 57. You should be able to tweak this to change the minimum width.
  - scholia 9y ago
    Fantastic. Many many thanks.

coldtea 9y ago

Yeah, if it's just for the good of the internet, openess, and society, who cares to jump to an equal (but better at those regards) engine?

benlower 9y ago

because Google has the worst biz model in the tech industry and is doing harm to the world.

myrryr 9y ago
I guess you were not around during the Halloween papers then. Or the Sco Linux lawsuits.
- benlower 9y ago
  i was not. def slimy stuff.
binaryblitz 9y ago
How so? That's a pretty bold claim...
aquadrop 9y ago
I think Chrome and its DevTools has positive overall effect on the world.
V-2 9y ago
Fortunately brave rebels fight against this harm in every way they can :) https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/11/14/firefox-features-google-as-default-search-provider-in-the-u-s-canada-hong-kong-and-taiwan/ https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/11/14/firefox-features-go... The real world is not Star Wars. For all the privacy considerations etc., this comment above reads extremely naive.

wtetzner 9y ago

Honestly, I find it to be (subjectively, I didn't actually measure anything) much faster than Chrome. At least, it feels much snappier on my MacBook Air.

dabockster 9y ago

A lot of us in the dev community feel that some of the web standards that Chrome is pushing does not reflect the will of the community at large. Chrome is also tied to a company known to have a business interest in data collection, while Firefox is maintained by the community with some funding from a nonprofit.

Zardoz84 9y ago

Becasue Firefox Dev tools are better ? I feel the Chrome dev tools more hard to use.