5 ms·

Without DOM it's not really that exciting.

steveklabnik 9y ago
There is a lot of processing that doesn't inherently need the DOM, and there's also server-side stuff as well. I think you'd be surprised!
- themihai 9y ago
  Yeah, but WASM was supposed to democratise the web development not to do just server-side stuff. Without DOM and Web APIs you can't do much Web related.
  - steveklabnik 9y ago
    There's tons of tooling written in JS for JS that doesn't need DOM access to work, for example.
    - themihai 9y ago
      If you talk about Node I would say that only proves my point that people go to great lengths to use their preferred language whenever possible. Tell them to use JS only for DOM stuff and wasm for things that don't need DOM. Nobody would prefers a FFI between wasm and js instead of plain wasm if given the option to choose.
  - CyberDildonics 9y ago
    > not to do just server-side stuff He didn't say anything about 'only server side stuff'. There is plenty that has already been demonstrated with webasm - video editing and filtering, audio editing and filtering, advanced computer graphics, direct porting of games, etc.
    - themihai 9y ago
      >> There is plenty that has already been demonstrated with webasm - video editing and filtering, audio editing and filtering, advanced computer graphics, direct porting of games, etc. Even for that it doesn't work without some js. The promise was that you can use your favorite language for web development and that's not the case. WASM is now more about the integration with JS.
      - CyberDildonics 9y ago
        The point also isn't that you don't need any javascript. It seems like people really aren't getting that webasm enables new things to be possible. Using javascript to bridge to certain APIs really hasn't been a problem. WebGL already works well, even with pure javascript. Between JIT compiling and bulk transfer functions, there aren't actually that many calls happening per frame. > The promise was that you can use your favorite language for web development I can see where you are confused. The promise was never about using your favorite language for web development. It was about being able to compile languages to a synthetic ISA that will run at near native speeds. > WASM is now more about the integration with JS. It was never about getting away from javascript, it was always about being able to run software at near native CPU speeds in the browser.

There is a lot of processing that doesn't inherently need the DOM, and there's also server-side stuff as well. I think you'd be surprised!

themihai 9y ago
Yeah, but WASM was supposed to democratise the web development not to do just server-side stuff. Without DOM and Web APIs you can't do much Web related.
- steveklabnik 9y ago
  There's tons of tooling written in JS for JS that doesn't need DOM access to work, for example.
  - themihai 9y ago
    If you talk about Node I would say that only proves my point that people go to great lengths to use their preferred language whenever possible. Tell them to use JS only for DOM stuff and wasm for things that don't need DOM. Nobody would prefers a FFI between wasm and js instead of plain wasm if given the option to choose.
- CyberDildonics 9y ago
  > not to do just server-side stuff He didn't say anything about 'only server side stuff'. There is plenty that has already been demonstrated with webasm - video editing and filtering, audio editing and filtering, advanced computer graphics, direct porting of games, etc.
  - themihai 9y ago
    >> There is plenty that has already been demonstrated with webasm - video editing and filtering, audio editing and filtering, advanced computer graphics, direct porting of games, etc. Even for that it doesn't work without some js. The promise was that you can use your favorite language for web development and that's not the case. WASM is now more about the integration with JS.
    - CyberDildonics 9y ago
      The point also isn't that you don't need any javascript. It seems like people really aren't getting that webasm enables new things to be possible. Using javascript to bridge to certain APIs really hasn't been a problem. WebGL already works well, even with pure javascript. Between JIT compiling and bulk transfer functions, there aren't actually that many calls happening per frame. > The promise was that you can use your favorite language for web development I can see where you are confused. The promise was never about using your favorite language for web development. It was about being able to compile languages to a synthetic ISA that will run at near native speeds. > WASM is now more about the integration with JS. It was never about getting away from javascript, it was always about being able to run software at near native CPU speeds in the browser.